From echapin at teksavvy.com Sun Nov 1 08:16:18 2009 From: echapin at teksavvy.com (Elliott Chapin) Date: Sun, 01 Nov 2009 11:16:18 -0500 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] alternative jack usage Message-ID: <4AEDB452.1020402@teksavvy.com> I have been using an FC11/CCRMA/Jack suite in performance. Looking at porting and expanding an audio trick I used under XP with other tools, I have come across the fact that Microprocessor Engineering's VfxForth for Linux has "fJACK", plus a couple of GUI-designer ports, etc. (the demo PLAY-SNIPPETS works). What I'd gain is unusual runtime flexibility. See www.forth.org for general information. -- http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin From rafael.raccuia at blindekinder.com Tue Nov 10 15:00:26 2009 From: rafael.raccuia at blindekinder.com (Raphael Raccuia) Date: Wed, 11 Nov 2009 00:00:26 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] Jack problem / system hangs... In-Reply-To: <1256905078.4041.10.camel@alphonse> References: <1256635734.2947.27.camel@alphonse> <1256662049.2923.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1256905078.4041.10.camel@alphonse> Message-ID: <4AF9F08A.6090809@blindekinder.com> Just to say that characters issue in 2.8.2 also appears in Ubuntu-Studio 9.10, but there it's possible to avoid specials characters (????). In CCRMA, it renames all track like: [track name]/Entr?e n which give: entr????e 1 Unusable! Seems to be fixed in 2.8.3 http://tracker.ardour.org/view.php?id=2426 cheers r Raphael Raccuia a ?crit : > Hi fernando and juan, > thanks for your answers... > > Fernando Lopez-Lezcano a ?crit : > >> On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 10:28 +0100, Raphael Raccuia wrote: >> >> >>> Hi, >>> I use F10/CCRMA since one year, and I like it because of his good >>> stability. >>> But I had some major problems last weeks, after a break using my >>> computer: >>> -Jackd: I start well (FFADO / Edirol FA-101), and is very stable (was >>> not the case on Ubuntu Studio). But now, I can't connect the patch. Some >>> names are corrupted (char coding problem), like: >>> Original/entr????e 1 >>> and it's impossible to connect, with message: >>> >>> Unknown destination port in attempted (dis)connection src_name >>> [system:AC6_dev0_LineIn 7+8 left] dst_name [ardour:Original/entr????e 1] >>> >>> >> What version do you have of qjackctl? ("rpm -q qjackctl" to find out). >> There was an update being pushed by Fedora a couple of days ago. >> >> >> > 0.3.4... > I haven't seen a new version... > But after more tests, I noticed the problem is with Ardour 2.8.2 from > F10-repos. Ardour seems to works great, but there is this a char issue > with jack connections. So I reinstalled 2.7, and it's ok... Anybody > planed to package 2.8 for CCRMA? > >>> Kernel: The only problem I had with CCRMA was to get rt-kernel working >>> on my machine. 2.6.27 didn't, but 2.6.29-? (ccrma testing repo) was ok >>> but now: >>> 2.6.29-6-rt: system hangs, until I press a key / move mouse >>> 2.6.29-2-rt: sometimes hangs on boot, I have to press a key, then give >>> me a kernel problem. but then seems to work... >>> Is there any kernel known as stable? >>> >>> >> Could you give us the complete names of the kernels? When you boot into >> one "uname -r" should give you the kernel version. You say "2.6.29" was >> ok, which version was it? >> >> >> >> Both kernels should be "stable", but how stable depends a bit on your >> particular hardware combination. The strange thing is that once you find >> a kernel that works for you it should keep working fine. Did you change >> any hardware in your machine? When did it start misbehaving? If you >> remember when it happened an "rpm -q -a --last" should point you to >> package changes that happened at that time... >> >> >> > Ok, I'll be more precise: > 2.6.29.6-1.rt23.4 & 2: system hangs on startup AND in use/ have to press a key to go on. I get xruns without apparent reason. > 2.6.29.2-1.rt11.1: seems to work, but sometimes hangs on startup (I had same problem with earlier version of Ubuntu and U-Studio (gutsy-hardy).It's ok now with jaunty.) > 2.6.29.1-1.rt4.1: same... And I have a strange message just after startup about "kernel failure". I can't reproduce because it's not appearing any more. Maybe I said "never again" or something (???) > 2.6.29-0.1.rt3.1: works well! (???) > So I can say that 29.6 doesn't work at all, and others work, some have problems. I didn't change nothing on my computer. Problems appeared after kernel updates, it seems it's getting worth on each update... > I'll keep using older rt-kernels... > =>Juan: don't thing it has to do with graphic or gnome... I never installed drivers for my nvidia (no need, and I heard it's recommended when using rt)... I works well > > cheers > raf > >> -- Fernando >> >> >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > PlanetCCRMA mailing list > PlanetCCRMA at ccrma.stanford.edu > http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/attachments/20091111/7e682fa3/attachment.html From sandysj at juno.com Fri Nov 13 12:03:09 2009 From: sandysj at juno.com (Jeff Sandys) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 12:03:09 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] /opt or /usr/local ? Message-ID: <26342657.post@talk.nabble.com> I want to play around with PD-42.5 without messing up CCRMA PD-extended 41.4, and want to try out Bristol-0.40.6 without wreaking CCRMA Bristol-0.20.9, should I install in /opt or /usr/local ? What about an application not in Fedora or CCRMA or FreshRPMS, just some source code I want to configure-make-install ? Where should that source code be kept? Thanks, Jeff Sandys -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/-opt-or--usr-local---tp26342657p26342657.html Sent from the PlanetCCRMA - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From oded at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 13 14:49:20 2009 From: oded at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Oded Ben-Tal) Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2009 14:49:20 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] /opt or /usr/local ? In-Reply-To: <26342657.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <26342657.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: > just some source code I want to configure-make-install ? > Where should that source code be kept? > I was able to compile and run Pd from source simply by putting it under my home directory. Pd has a compile switch for target directory (e.g. /home/jeff/bin ). the only issue is that you can only start this version of Pd from that directory. But is does mean you can still run the packaged Pd as well. Oded From linux at gabriel-striewe.de Fri Nov 13 16:58:33 2009 From: linux at gabriel-striewe.de (linux at gabriel-striewe.de) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 01:58:33 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 Message-ID: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> Hello, I have just today started using CCRMA. I installed the distribution using your installation notes (installing fedora 10, yum update, adding ccrma repo, installing ccrma). According to lspci, my soundcard is: 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies Inc. VT1720/24 [Envy24PT/HT] PCI Multi-Channel Audio Controller (rev 01) Now, when I start jack using "jackd -R -dalsa", every few minutes I get the error: ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999959 usecs JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle And when in qjackctl I try to connect audio system input to output, it doesn't do anything, just in the shell window in which I started jack: JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 3 JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 2 port_dst = 4 which seems strange to me, since it doesn't show the connections in qjackctl. cat /proc/asound/cards says: 0 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe800, irq 17 I hope those error messages can give you a hint about what is wrong. If there is any other output I can give you, please help.. Thanks in advance Gabriel From linux at gabriel-striewe.de Sat Nov 14 05:16:16 2009 From: linux at gabriel-striewe.de (Gabriel) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 14:16:16 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 In-Reply-To: <4AFE017A.7030800@teksavvy.com> References: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> <4AFE017A.7030800@teksavvy.com> Message-ID: <20091114131616.GA3102@server.gs> On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 08:01:46PM -0500, Elliott Chapin wrote: > Fedora 11 versions are avilable at CCRMA. > > On 11/13/2009 07:58 PM, linux at gabriel-striewe.de wrote: >> Hello, >> >> I have just today started using CCRMA. I installed the distribution >> using your installation notes (installing fedora 10, yum update, >> adding ccrma repo, installing ccrma). >> >> According to lspci, my soundcard is: >> >> 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies Inc. VT1720/24 >> [Envy24PT/HT] PCI Multi-Channel Audio Controller (rev 01) >> >> Now, when I start jack using "jackd -R -dalsa", every few minutes I >> get the error: >> >> ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999959 usecs >> JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle >> >> And when in qjackctl I try to connect audio system input to output, it >> doesn't do anything, just in the shell window in which I started jack: >> >> JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 3 >> JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 2 port_dst = 4 >> >> which seems strange to me, since it doesn't show the connections in >> qjackctl. >> >> cat /proc/asound/cards says: >> >> 0 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 >> ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe800, irq 17 >> >> I hope those error messages can give you a hint about what is >> wrong. If there is any other output I can give you, please help.. >> >> Thanks in advance >> >> Gabriel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> PlanetCCRMA mailing list >> PlanetCCRMA at ccrma.stanford.edu >> http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma >> > > -- > http://clients.teksavvy.com/~echapin I got it working with my old card CMI8738-MC6 - C-Media CMI8738 C-Media CMI8738 (model 55) at 0xe800, irq 17 I will now start using it and in a whild upgrade to Fedora 11 and see whether it's going to work. CCRMA seems to be great, thanks for the work. I also have a Focusrite Saffire LE which I am going to test on CCRMA. Anybody else has the device? Greetings, Gabriel From oded at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 14 08:41:52 2009 From: oded at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Oded Ben-Tal) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 08:41:52 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 In-Reply-To: <20091114131616.GA3102@server.gs> References: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> <4AFE017A.7030800@teksavvy.com> <20091114131616.GA3102@server.gs> Message-ID: > > I also have a Focusrite Saffire LE which I am going to test on > CCRMA. Anybody else has the device? > I am using it (semi)-successfully with FC10. A very good howto about focusrite was sent to the list a whileback. There are some issues with the firewire chipsets I had to get a card that works (TI chipset). From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 14 10:48:24 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 10:48:24 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 In-Reply-To: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> References: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> Message-ID: <1258224504.17092.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 01:58 +0100, linux at gabriel-striewe.de wrote: > Hello, > > I have just today started using CCRMA. I installed the distribution > using your installation notes (installing fedora 10, yum update, > adding ccrma repo, installing ccrma). > > According to lspci, my soundcard is: > > 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies Inc. VT1720/24 > [Envy24PT/HT] PCI Multi-Channel Audio Controller (rev 01) > > Now, when I start jack using "jackd -R -dalsa", every few minutes I > get the error: > > ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999959 usecs > JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle > > And when in qjackctl I try to connect audio system input to output, it > doesn't do anything, just in the shell window in which I started jack: > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 3 > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 2 port_dst = 4 > > which seems strange to me, since it doesn't show the connections in > qjackctl. > > cat /proc/asound/cards says: > > 0 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 > ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe800, irq 17 > > I hope those error messages can give you a hint about what is > wrong. If there is any other output I can give you, please help.. Hmmmm, strange. The error message would suggest some sort of ALSA (the sound driver) problem. Does it happen only once? What happens if you use different parameters? jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 You can also try starting jack from within qjackctl (set the parameters in the "Setup" tab. Then press the "Start" button and check the messages in the "Messages" pane. Start a simple jack client like Hydrogen, load one of the demo patterns and connect the audio outputs in qjackctl to the system outputs. You might need to tweak input/output levels in alsamixer (or better yet, in envy24control - but I don't remember if 1724 based cards are supported). -- Fernando From linux at gabriel-striewe.de Sat Nov 14 15:28:00 2009 From: linux at gabriel-striewe.de (Gabriel) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 00:28:00 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 In-Reply-To: <1258224504.17092.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> <1258224504.17092.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20091114232800.GA2970@server.gs> On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:48:24AM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 01:58 +0100, linux at gabriel-striewe.de wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have just today started using CCRMA. I installed the distribution > > using your installation notes (installing fedora 10, yum update, > > adding ccrma repo, installing ccrma). > > > > According to lspci, my soundcard is: > > > > 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies Inc. VT1720/24 > > [Envy24PT/HT] PCI Multi-Channel Audio Controller (rev 01) > > > > Now, when I start jack using "jackd -R -dalsa", every few minutes I > > get the error: > > > > ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999959 usecs > > JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle > > > > And when in qjackctl I try to connect audio system input to output, it > > doesn't do anything, just in the shell window in which I started jack: > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 3 > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 2 port_dst = 4 > > > > which seems strange to me, since it doesn't show the connections in > > qjackctl. > > > > cat /proc/asound/cards says: > > > > 0 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 > > ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe800, irq 17 > > > > I hope those error messages can give you a hint about what is > > wrong. If there is any other output I can give you, please help.. > > Hmmmm, strange. The error message would suggest some sort of ALSA (the > sound driver) problem. Does it happen only once? > > What happens if you use different parameters? > jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 > > You can also try starting jack from within qjackctl (set the parameters > in the "Setup" tab. Then press the "Start" button and check the messages > in the "Messages" pane. Start a simple jack client like Hydrogen, load > one of the demo patterns and connect the audio outputs in qjackctl to > the system outputs. You might need to tweak input/output levels in > alsamixer (or better yet, in envy24control - but I don't remember if > 1724 based cards are supported). > > -- Fernando > > Hello, thanks for that. Today I took away my ICE1724 card and replaced it with my old VIA card, as I mentioned in my earlier message today. However, during the week I will come back to this issue. I just for today didn't want into issues concerning having two sound cards in the system. However, I ran into one other problem. If I log onto my system directly, locally, I log on, and then I start jack with jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 without problems. I do have a kernel bug, this one: Kernel failure message 1: BUG: sleeping function called from invalid context IRQ-14(412) at arch/x86/mm/highmem_32.c:8 in_atomic():0 [00000000], irqs_disabled():1 Pid: 412, comm: IRQ-14 Not tainted 2.6.26.8-1.rt16.1.fc10.ccrma.i686.rt #1 [] __might_sleep+0xe8/0xed [] kmap+0x42/0x55 [] sg_copy_buffer+0xa6/0x16c [] sg_copy_to_buffer+0xd/0xf [] atapi_qc_complete+0x25c/0x2b6 [libata] [] __ata_qc_complete+0x8e/0x93 [libata] [] ata_qc_complete+0x197/0x19d [libata] [] ata_hsm_qc_complete+0x9b/0xb3 [libata] [] ata_sff_hsm_move+0x602/0x64e [libata] [] ? finish_task_switch+0x4b/0xf0 [] ? __rt_spin_lock+0x24/0x61 [] ata_sff_interrupt+0x153/0x1eb [libata] [] handle_IRQ_event+0x49/0xe6 [] do_irqd+0x12b/0x229 [] ? do_irqd+0x0/0x229 [] kthread+0x3b/0x61 [] ? kthread+0x0/0x61 [] kernel_thread_helper+0x7/0x10 However, it doesn't hinder jack and the other apps like qjackctl and hydrogen from running. If I log in through ssh -Y from my Lapton running Debian 5.0, it gives me the message: could not open driver .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory could not open component .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory jackdmp 1.9.2 Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. Copyright 2004-2008 Grame. jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|1024|3|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit control open "hw:0" (Permission denied) Cannot initialize driver no message buffer overruns JackServer::Open() failed with -1 Failed to start server This does not happen, if I log onto my computer locally (the one which is actually running jack) and then log on through ssh. In that case, I can use the jack apps through ssh without problems. If then, I log off again locally, I have the same problem, so it is reproducable. What do I do to be able to log in through ssh? Regards, Gabriel From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 14 17:53:46 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Sat, 14 Nov 2009 17:53:46 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 In-Reply-To: <20091114232800.GA2970@server.gs> References: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> <1258224504.17092.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091114232800.GA2970@server.gs> Message-ID: <1258250026.23835.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 00:28 +0100, Gabriel wrote: > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:48:24AM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 01:58 +0100, linux at gabriel-striewe.de wrote: > > > Hello, > > > > > > I have just today started using CCRMA. I installed the distribution > > > using your installation notes (installing fedora 10, yum update, > > > adding ccrma repo, installing ccrma). > > > > > > According to lspci, my soundcard is: > > > > > > 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies Inc. VT1720/24 > > > [Envy24PT/HT] PCI Multi-Channel Audio Controller (rev 01) > > > > > > Now, when I start jack using "jackd -R -dalsa", every few minutes I > > > get the error: > > > > > > ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999959 usecs > > > JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle > > > > > > And when in qjackctl I try to connect audio system input to output, it > > > doesn't do anything, just in the shell window in which I started jack: > > > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 3 > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 2 port_dst = 4 > > > > > > which seems strange to me, since it doesn't show the connections in > > > qjackctl. > > > > > > cat /proc/asound/cards says: > > > > > > 0 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 > > > ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe800, irq 17 > > > > > > I hope those error messages can give you a hint about what is > > > wrong. If there is any other output I can give you, please help.. > > > > Hmmmm, strange. The error message would suggest some sort of ALSA (the > > sound driver) problem. Does it happen only once? > > > > What happens if you use different parameters? > > jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 > > > > You can also try starting jack from within qjackctl (set the parameters > > in the "Setup" tab. Then press the "Start" button and check the messages > > in the "Messages" pane. Start a simple jack client like Hydrogen, load > > one of the demo patterns and connect the audio outputs in qjackctl to > > the system outputs. You might need to tweak input/output levels in > > alsamixer (or better yet, in envy24control - but I don't remember if > > 1724 based cards are supported). > > Hello, thanks for that. Today I took away my ICE1724 card and replaced > it with my old VIA card, as I mentioned in my earlier message > today. However, during the week I will come back to this issue. I just > for today didn't want into issues concerning having two sound cards in > the system. > > However, I ran into one other problem. If I log onto my system > directly, locally, I log on, and then I start jack with jackd -R -d > alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 without problems. I do have a kernel bug, > this one: > > Kernel failure message 1: > BUG: sleeping function called from invalid context IRQ-14(412) at arch/x86/mm/highmem_32.c:8 > in_atomic():0 [00000000], irqs_disabled():1 > Pid: 412, comm: IRQ-14 Not tainted 2.6.26.8-1.rt16.1.fc10.ccrma.i686.rt #1 > [] __might_sleep+0xe8/0xed > [] kmap+0x42/0x55 > [] sg_copy_buffer+0xa6/0x16c > [] sg_copy_to_buffer+0xd/0xf > [] atapi_qc_complete+0x25c/0x2b6 [libata] > [] __ata_qc_complete+0x8e/0x93 [libata] > [] ata_qc_complete+0x197/0x19d [libata] > [] ata_hsm_qc_complete+0x9b/0xb3 [libata] > [] ata_sff_hsm_move+0x602/0x64e [libata] > [] ? finish_task_switch+0x4b/0xf0 > [] ? __rt_spin_lock+0x24/0x61 > [] ata_sff_interrupt+0x153/0x1eb [libata] > [] handle_IRQ_event+0x49/0xe6 > [] do_irqd+0x12b/0x229 > [] ? do_irqd+0x0/0x229 > [] kthread+0x3b/0x61 > [] ? kthread+0x0/0x61 > [] kernel_thread_helper+0x7/0x10 > > However, it doesn't hinder jack and the other apps like qjackctl and > hydrogen from running. It is a knows issue with that particular kernel. You can safely ignore the message (there are newer kernels in the planetccrma-testing repositories you could try). > If I log in through ssh -Y from my Lapton > running Debian 5.0, it gives me the message: > > could not open driver .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > could not open component .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > jackdmp 1.9.2 > Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. > Copyright 2004-2008 Grame. > jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY > This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it > under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details > JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 > creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|1024|3|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit > control open "hw:0" (Permission denied) > Cannot initialize driver > no message buffer overruns > JackServer::Open() failed with -1 > Failed to start server > > This does not happen, if I log onto my computer locally (the one which > is actually running jack) and then log on through ssh. In that case, I > can use the jack apps through ssh without problems. If then, I log off > again locally, I have the same problem, so it is reproducable. > > > What do I do to be able to log in through ssh? For security external logins are not allowed access to the audio devices by default, only the logged in user in the main console can use them (so if you are logged in locally, and the remote user is the same things also work). In fc10 this is controlled through the "policy kit". For example, from a terminal: ---- $ polkit-action --action org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound action_id: org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound description: Directly access sound devices message: System policy prevents access to the sound devices default_any: no default_inactive: no default_active: yes ---- which means an active session (ie: local login) has access, everyone else does not have access. You can use polkit-gnome-authorization (a gui application) to make changes. Look for "Directly access sound devices" and change things so that "Anyone" has access. -- Fernando From oded at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 15 09:29:49 2009 From: oded at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Oded Ben-Tal) Date: Sun, 15 Nov 2009 09:29:49 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] Jack problem In-Reply-To: <1256662049.2923.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1256635734.2947.27.camel@alphonse> <1256662049.2923.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: For some strange reason I can no longer get Jack to work with my firewire card (SaffirLE). It works on kernel rt16.1 though I get clicks and pops with Pd. When I try on rt23.2 or rt23.4 I get an error: JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 00385812235: (ffado.cpp)[ 92] ffado_streaming_init: libffado 1.999.40- built Dec 12 2008 16:33:37 firewire ERR: FFADO: Error creating virtual device Cannot attach audio driver no message buffer overruns JackServer::Open() failed with -1 no message buffer overruns Failed to start server jackwrapper: pacmd suspend 0 17:23:14.755 JACK was stopped successfully. 17:23:14.755 Post-shutdown script... 17:23:14.755 killall jackd 17:23:14.932 Could not connect to JACK server as client. - Overall operation failed. - Unable to connect to server. Please check the messages window for more info. Cannot connect to server socket err = No such file or directory Cannot connect to server socket jack server is not running or cannot be started no message buffer overruns jackd: no process killed 17:23:17.918 Post-shutdown script terminated with exit status=256. I tried changing some of the parameters but it simply fails. Any clues? Oded From linux at gabriel-striewe.de Mon Nov 16 14:18:40 2009 From: linux at gabriel-striewe.de (Gabriel) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 23:18:40 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 In-Reply-To: <1258250026.23835.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> <1258224504.17092.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091114232800.GA2970@server.gs> <1258250026.23835.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20091116221840.GA2385@server.gs> On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 05:53:46PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 00:28 +0100, Gabriel wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:48:24AM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 01:58 +0100, linux at gabriel-striewe.de wrote: > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > I have just today started using CCRMA. I installed the distribution > > > > using your installation notes (installing fedora 10, yum update, > > > > adding ccrma repo, installing ccrma). > > > > > > > > According to lspci, my soundcard is: > > > > > > > > 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies Inc. VT1720/24 > > > > [Envy24PT/HT] PCI Multi-Channel Audio Controller (rev 01) > > > > > > > > Now, when I start jack using "jackd -R -dalsa", every few minutes I > > > > get the error: > > > > > > > > ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999959 usecs > > > > JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle > > > > > > > > And when in qjackctl I try to connect audio system input to output, it > > > > doesn't do anything, just in the shell window in which I started jack: > > > > > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 3 > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 2 port_dst = 4 > > > > > > > > which seems strange to me, since it doesn't show the connections in > > > > qjackctl. > > > > > > > > cat /proc/asound/cards says: > > > > > > > > 0 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 > > > > ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe800, irq 17 > > > > > > > > I hope those error messages can give you a hint about what is > > > > wrong. If there is any other output I can give you, please help.. > > > > > > Hmmmm, strange. The error message would suggest some sort of ALSA (the > > > sound driver) problem. Does it happen only once? > > > > > > What happens if you use different parameters? > > > jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 > > > > > > You can also try starting jack from within qjackctl (set the parameters > > > in the "Setup" tab. Then press the "Start" button and check the messages > > > in the "Messages" pane. Start a simple jack client like Hydrogen, load > > > one of the demo patterns and connect the audio outputs in qjackctl to > > > the system outputs. You might need to tweak input/output levels in > > > alsamixer (or better yet, in envy24control - but I don't remember if > > > 1724 based cards are supported). > > > > Hello, thanks for that. Today I took away my ICE1724 card and replaced > > it with my old VIA card, as I mentioned in my earlier message > > today. However, during the week I will come back to this issue. I just > > for today didn't want into issues concerning having two sound cards in > > the system. > > > > However, I ran into one other problem. If I log onto my system > > directly, locally, I log on, and then I start jack with jackd -R -d > > alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 without problems. I do have a kernel bug, > > this one: > > > > Kernel failure message 1: > > BUG: sleeping function called from invalid context IRQ-14(412) at arch/x86/mm/highmem_32.c:8 > > in_atomic():0 [00000000], irqs_disabled():1 > > Pid: 412, comm: IRQ-14 Not tainted 2.6.26.8-1.rt16.1.fc10.ccrma.i686.rt #1 > > [] __might_sleep+0xe8/0xed > > [] kmap+0x42/0x55 > > [] sg_copy_buffer+0xa6/0x16c > > [] sg_copy_to_buffer+0xd/0xf > > [] atapi_qc_complete+0x25c/0x2b6 [libata] > > [] __ata_qc_complete+0x8e/0x93 [libata] > > [] ata_qc_complete+0x197/0x19d [libata] > > [] ata_hsm_qc_complete+0x9b/0xb3 [libata] > > [] ata_sff_hsm_move+0x602/0x64e [libata] > > [] ? finish_task_switch+0x4b/0xf0 > > [] ? __rt_spin_lock+0x24/0x61 > > [] ata_sff_interrupt+0x153/0x1eb [libata] > > [] handle_IRQ_event+0x49/0xe6 > > [] do_irqd+0x12b/0x229 > > [] ? do_irqd+0x0/0x229 > > [] kthread+0x3b/0x61 > > [] ? kthread+0x0/0x61 > > [] kernel_thread_helper+0x7/0x10 > > > > However, it doesn't hinder jack and the other apps like qjackctl and > > hydrogen from running. > > It is a knows issue with that particular kernel. You can safely ignore > the message (there are newer kernels in the planetccrma-testing > repositories you could try). > > > If I log in through ssh -Y from my Lapton > > running Debian 5.0, it gives me the message: > > > > could not open driver .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > could not open component .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > jackdmp 1.9.2 > > Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. > > Copyright 2004-2008 Grame. > > jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY > > This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it > > under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details > > JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 > > creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|1024|3|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit > > control open "hw:0" (Permission denied) > > Cannot initialize driver > > no message buffer overruns > > JackServer::Open() failed with -1 > > Failed to start server > > > > This does not happen, if I log onto my computer locally (the one which > > is actually running jack) and then log on through ssh. In that case, I > > can use the jack apps through ssh without problems. If then, I log off > > again locally, I have the same problem, so it is reproducable. > > > > > > What do I do to be able to log in through ssh? > > For security external logins are not allowed access to the audio devices > by default, only the logged in user in the main console can use them (so > if you are logged in locally, and the remote user is the same things > also work). > > In fc10 this is controlled through the "policy kit". For example, from a > terminal: > > ---- > $ polkit-action --action org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound > action_id: org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound > description: Directly access sound devices > message: System policy prevents access to the sound devices > default_any: no > default_inactive: no > default_active: yes > ---- > > which means an active session (ie: local login) has access, everyone > else does not have access. > > You can use polkit-gnome-authorization (a gui application) to make > changes. Look for "Directly access sound devices" and change things so > that "Anyone" has access. > > -- Fernando > > > Thanks for your help. I just wanted to note that this still didn't work by default. Fedora (at least version 10 which I am using) sets the group of the audio devices to root by default. If however, I chgrp the audio devices to a group of which I am a member (chgrp -R audio /dev/snd* and chgrp -R audio /proc/asound/*), then everything works fine. Just wanted to note that for documentation purposes. Greetings, Gabriel From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 16 15:10:46 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2009 15:10:46 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 In-Reply-To: <20091116221840.GA2385@server.gs> References: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> <1258224504.17092.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091114232800.GA2970@server.gs> <1258250026.23835.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091116221840.GA2385@server.gs> Message-ID: <1258413046.31513.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 23:18 +0100, Gabriel wrote: > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 05:53:46PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 00:28 +0100, Gabriel wrote: > > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:48:24AM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > > On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 01:58 +0100, linux at gabriel-striewe.de wrote: > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > I have just today started using CCRMA. I installed the distribution > > > > > using your installation notes (installing fedora 10, yum update, > > > > > adding ccrma repo, installing ccrma). > > > > > > > > > > According to lspci, my soundcard is: > > > > > > > > > > 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies Inc. VT1720/24 > > > > > [Envy24PT/HT] PCI Multi-Channel Audio Controller (rev 01) > > > > > > > > > > Now, when I start jack using "jackd -R -dalsa", every few minutes I > > > > > get the error: > > > > > > > > > > ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999959 usecs > > > > > JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle > > > > > > > > > > And when in qjackctl I try to connect audio system input to output, it > > > > > doesn't do anything, just in the shell window in which I started jack: > > > > > > > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 3 > > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 2 port_dst = 4 > > > > > > > > > > which seems strange to me, since it doesn't show the connections in > > > > > qjackctl. > > > > > > > > > > cat /proc/asound/cards says: > > > > > > > > > > 0 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 > > > > > ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe800, irq 17 > > > > > > > > > > I hope those error messages can give you a hint about what is > > > > > wrong. If there is any other output I can give you, please help.. > > > > > > > > Hmmmm, strange. The error message would suggest some sort of ALSA (the > > > > sound driver) problem. Does it happen only once? > > > > > > > > What happens if you use different parameters? > > > > jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 > > > > > > > > You can also try starting jack from within qjackctl (set the parameters > > > > in the "Setup" tab. Then press the "Start" button and check the messages > > > > in the "Messages" pane. Start a simple jack client like Hydrogen, load > > > > one of the demo patterns and connect the audio outputs in qjackctl to > > > > the system outputs. You might need to tweak input/output levels in > > > > alsamixer (or better yet, in envy24control - but I don't remember if > > > > 1724 based cards are supported). > > > > > > Hello, thanks for that. Today I took away my ICE1724 card and replaced > > > it with my old VIA card, as I mentioned in my earlier message > > > today. However, during the week I will come back to this issue. I just > > > for today didn't want into issues concerning having two sound cards in > > > the system. > > > > > > However, I ran into one other problem. If I log onto my system > > > directly, locally, I log on, and then I start jack with jackd -R -d > > > alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 without problems. I do have a kernel bug, > > > this one: > > > > > > Kernel failure message 1: > > > BUG: sleeping function called from invalid context IRQ-14(412) at arch/x86/mm/highmem_32.c:8 > > > in_atomic():0 [00000000], irqs_disabled():1 > > > Pid: 412, comm: IRQ-14 Not tainted 2.6.26.8-1.rt16.1.fc10.ccrma.i686.rt #1 > > > [] __might_sleep+0xe8/0xed > > > [] kmap+0x42/0x55 > > > [] sg_copy_buffer+0xa6/0x16c > > > [] sg_copy_to_buffer+0xd/0xf > > > [] atapi_qc_complete+0x25c/0x2b6 [libata] > > > [] __ata_qc_complete+0x8e/0x93 [libata] > > > [] ata_qc_complete+0x197/0x19d [libata] > > > [] ata_hsm_qc_complete+0x9b/0xb3 [libata] > > > [] ata_sff_hsm_move+0x602/0x64e [libata] > > > [] ? finish_task_switch+0x4b/0xf0 > > > [] ? __rt_spin_lock+0x24/0x61 > > > [] ata_sff_interrupt+0x153/0x1eb [libata] > > > [] handle_IRQ_event+0x49/0xe6 > > > [] do_irqd+0x12b/0x229 > > > [] ? do_irqd+0x0/0x229 > > > [] kthread+0x3b/0x61 > > > [] ? kthread+0x0/0x61 > > > [] kernel_thread_helper+0x7/0x10 > > > > > > However, it doesn't hinder jack and the other apps like qjackctl and > > > hydrogen from running. > > > > It is a knows issue with that particular kernel. You can safely ignore > > the message (there are newer kernels in the planetccrma-testing > > repositories you could try). > > > > > If I log in through ssh -Y from my Lapton > > > running Debian 5.0, it gives me the message: > > > > > > could not open driver .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > > could not open component .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > > jackdmp 1.9.2 > > > Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. > > > Copyright 2004-2008 Grame. > > > jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY > > > This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it > > > under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details > > > JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 > > > creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|1024|3|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit > > > control open "hw:0" (Permission denied) > > > Cannot initialize driver > > > no message buffer overruns > > > JackServer::Open() failed with -1 > > > Failed to start server > > > > > > This does not happen, if I log onto my computer locally (the one which > > > is actually running jack) and then log on through ssh. In that case, I > > > can use the jack apps through ssh without problems. If then, I log off > > > again locally, I have the same problem, so it is reproducable. > > > > > > > > > What do I do to be able to log in through ssh? > > > > For security external logins are not allowed access to the audio devices > > by default, only the logged in user in the main console can use them (so > > if you are logged in locally, and the remote user is the same things > > also work). > > > > In fc10 this is controlled through the "policy kit". For example, from a > > terminal: > > > > ---- > > $ polkit-action --action org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound > > action_id: org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound > > description: Directly access sound devices > > message: System policy prevents access to the sound devices > > default_any: no > > default_inactive: no > > default_active: yes > > ---- > > > > which means an active session (ie: local login) has access, everyone > > else does not have access. > > > > You can use polkit-gnome-authorization (a gui application) to make > > changes. Look for "Directly access sound devices" and change things so > > that "Anyone" has access. > > > Thanks for your help. I just wanted to note that this still didn't > work by default. You mean access to audio devices of a remotely logged in user? That is by design and normally not needed or wanted. > Fedora (at least version 10 which I am using) sets > the group of the audio devices to root by default. If however, I chgrp > the audio devices to a group of which I am a member (chgrp -R > audio /dev/snd* and chgrp -R audio /proc/asound/*), then everything > works fine. If you are in the proper group, of course. > Just wanted to note that for documentation purposes. The chgrp will work, of course, or even a chmod 666 for them, but only until the next reboot (I think). If you want to use that workaround you will have to add something to the (for example) /etc/rc.d/rc.local. Authorization for audio devices uses acl's in addition to plain unix permissions. To see who currently has access to the audio devices do: getfacl /dev/snd/* You will see that while the plain unix device permissions are going to show up as root.audio for the audio devices, the _actual_ access permissions due to acl's (Access Control Lists) is wider and includes the currently logged in user (when there is someone logged in, of course). The proper thing to do is to update the policy kit authorization for them as outlined above. -- Fernando From linux at gabriel-striewe.de Tue Nov 17 13:27:09 2009 From: linux at gabriel-striewe.de (Gabriel) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:27:09 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 In-Reply-To: <1258413046.31513.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> <1258224504.17092.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091114232800.GA2970@server.gs> <1258250026.23835.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091116221840.GA2385@server.gs> <1258413046.31513.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20091117212709.GA2341@server.gs> On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 03:10:46PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 23:18 +0100, Gabriel wrote: > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 05:53:46PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 00:28 +0100, Gabriel wrote: > > > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:48:24AM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 01:58 +0100, linux at gabriel-striewe.de wrote: > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just today started using CCRMA. I installed the distribution > > > > > > using your installation notes (installing fedora 10, yum update, > > > > > > adding ccrma repo, installing ccrma). > > > > > > > > > > > > According to lspci, my soundcard is: > > > > > > > > > > > > 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies Inc. VT1720/24 > > > > > > [Envy24PT/HT] PCI Multi-Channel Audio Controller (rev 01) > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, when I start jack using "jackd -R -dalsa", every few minutes I > > > > > > get the error: > > > > > > > > > > > > ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999959 usecs > > > > > > JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle > > > > > > > > > > > > And when in qjackctl I try to connect audio system input to output, it > > > > > > doesn't do anything, just in the shell window in which I started jack: > > > > > > > > > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 3 > > > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 2 port_dst = 4 > > > > > > > > > > > > which seems strange to me, since it doesn't show the connections in > > > > > > qjackctl. > > > > > > > > > > > > cat /proc/asound/cards says: > > > > > > > > > > > > 0 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 > > > > > > ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe800, irq 17 > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope those error messages can give you a hint about what is > > > > > > wrong. If there is any other output I can give you, please help.. > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmm, strange. The error message would suggest some sort of ALSA (the > > > > > sound driver) problem. Does it happen only once? > > > > > > > > > > What happens if you use different parameters? > > > > > jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 > > > > > > > > > > You can also try starting jack from within qjackctl (set the parameters > > > > > in the "Setup" tab. Then press the "Start" button and check the messages > > > > > in the "Messages" pane. Start a simple jack client like Hydrogen, load > > > > > one of the demo patterns and connect the audio outputs in qjackctl to > > > > > the system outputs. You might need to tweak input/output levels in > > > > > alsamixer (or better yet, in envy24control - but I don't remember if > > > > > 1724 based cards are supported). > > > > > > > > Hello, thanks for that. Today I took away my ICE1724 card and replaced > > > > it with my old VIA card, as I mentioned in my earlier message > > > > today. However, during the week I will come back to this issue. I just > > > > for today didn't want into issues concerning having two sound cards in > > > > the system. > > > > > > > > However, I ran into one other problem. If I log onto my system > > > > directly, locally, I log on, and then I start jack with jackd -R -d > > > > alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 without problems. I do have a kernel bug, > > > > this one: > > > > > > > > Kernel failure message 1: > > > > BUG: sleeping function called from invalid context IRQ-14(412) at arch/x86/mm/highmem_32.c:8 > > > > in_atomic():0 [00000000], irqs_disabled():1 > > > > Pid: 412, comm: IRQ-14 Not tainted 2.6.26.8-1.rt16.1.fc10.ccrma.i686.rt #1 > > > > [] __might_sleep+0xe8/0xed > > > > [] kmap+0x42/0x55 > > > > [] sg_copy_buffer+0xa6/0x16c > > > > [] sg_copy_to_buffer+0xd/0xf > > > > [] atapi_qc_complete+0x25c/0x2b6 [libata] > > > > [] __ata_qc_complete+0x8e/0x93 [libata] > > > > [] ata_qc_complete+0x197/0x19d [libata] > > > > [] ata_hsm_qc_complete+0x9b/0xb3 [libata] > > > > [] ata_sff_hsm_move+0x602/0x64e [libata] > > > > [] ? finish_task_switch+0x4b/0xf0 > > > > [] ? __rt_spin_lock+0x24/0x61 > > > > [] ata_sff_interrupt+0x153/0x1eb [libata] > > > > [] handle_IRQ_event+0x49/0xe6 > > > > [] do_irqd+0x12b/0x229 > > > > [] ? do_irqd+0x0/0x229 > > > > [] kthread+0x3b/0x61 > > > > [] ? kthread+0x0/0x61 > > > > [] kernel_thread_helper+0x7/0x10 > > > > > > > > However, it doesn't hinder jack and the other apps like qjackctl and > > > > hydrogen from running. > > > > > > It is a knows issue with that particular kernel. You can safely ignore > > > the message (there are newer kernels in the planetccrma-testing > > > repositories you could try). > > > > > > > If I log in through ssh -Y from my Lapton > > > > running Debian 5.0, it gives me the message: > > > > > > > > could not open driver .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > > > could not open component .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > > > jackdmp 1.9.2 > > > > Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. > > > > Copyright 2004-2008 Grame. > > > > jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY > > > > This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it > > > > under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details > > > > JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 > > > > creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|1024|3|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit > > > > control open "hw:0" (Permission denied) > > > > Cannot initialize driver > > > > no message buffer overruns > > > > JackServer::Open() failed with -1 > > > > Failed to start server > > > > > > > > This does not happen, if I log onto my computer locally (the one which > > > > is actually running jack) and then log on through ssh. In that case, I > > > > can use the jack apps through ssh without problems. If then, I log off > > > > again locally, I have the same problem, so it is reproducable. > > > > > > > > > > > > What do I do to be able to log in through ssh? > > > > > > For security external logins are not allowed access to the audio devices > > > by default, only the logged in user in the main console can use them (so > > > if you are logged in locally, and the remote user is the same things > > > also work). > > > > > > In fc10 this is controlled through the "policy kit". For example, from a > > > terminal: > > > > > > ---- > > > $ polkit-action --action org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound > > > action_id: org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound > > > description: Directly access sound devices > > > message: System policy prevents access to the sound devices > > > default_any: no > > > default_inactive: no > > > default_active: yes > > > ---- > > > > > > which means an active session (ie: local login) has access, everyone > > > else does not have access. > > > > > > You can use polkit-gnome-authorization (a gui application) to make > > > changes. Look for "Directly access sound devices" and change things so > > > that "Anyone" has access. > > > > > Thanks for your help. I just wanted to note that this still didn't > > work by default. > > You mean access to audio devices of a remotely logged in user? That is > by design and normally not needed or wanted. Well, I use a Laptop as a thin client to my headless DAW. Since I still need Windows (I still use Sibelius every now and then, but I am in the process of transfering my scores to lilypond!), it gives me the option of connection from Windows via ssh to my Linux Audio Workstation. Mostly however, I use Linux, also on my Laptop. > > > Fedora (at least version 10 which I am using) sets > > the group of the audio devices to root by default. If however, I chgrp > > the audio devices to a group of which I am a member (chgrp -R > > audio /dev/snd* and chgrp -R audio /proc/asound/*), then everything > > works fine. > > If you are in the proper group, of course. Yes, of course. Sorry not to have mentioned so. > > > Just wanted to note that for documentation purposes. > > The chgrp will work, of course, or even a chmod 666 for them, but only > until the next reboot (I think). If you want to use that workaround you > will have to add something to the (for example) /etc/rc.d/rc.local. > > Authorization for audio devices uses acl's in addition to plain unix > permissions. To see who currently has access to the audio devices do: > > getfacl /dev/snd/* > > You will see that while the plain unix device permissions are going to > show up as root.audio for the audio devices, the _actual_ access > permissions due to acl's (Access Control Lists) is wider and includes > the currently logged in user (when there is someone logged in, of > course). > > The proper thing to do is to update the policy kit authorization for > them as outlined above. > > -- Fernando > > I used setfacl to set up the security policy. And now it works fine as I wanted it to be. That should be a viable option, shouldn't it? Greetings, Gabriel From linux at gabriel-striewe.de Tue Nov 17 13:33:34 2009 From: linux at gabriel-striewe.de (Gabriel) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:33:34 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] book on ccrma? Message-ID: <20091117213334.GB2341@server.gs> Hello, is there a book available on CCRMA? In case there isn't, I would like to set one up. I will publish the sources on my website under the GNU Free Documentation License. I am thinking about using LaTeX \documentclass{book}. Any other idea? When it is quite usable, everybody can buy a printed copy on demand on lily.com. Or just download the sources, convert them to pdf and print them at home or read them on screen! It would be a book on setup of CCRMA on Fedora, installation, a guide to jack and compatible programs, a section on ffado and so on. Greetings, Gabriel From linux at gabriel-striewe.de Tue Nov 17 13:46:31 2009 From: linux at gabriel-striewe.de (Gabriel) Date: Tue, 17 Nov 2009 22:46:31 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 In-Reply-To: <20091117212709.GA2341@server.gs> References: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> <1258224504.17092.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091114232800.GA2970@server.gs> <1258250026.23835.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091116221840.GA2385@server.gs> <1258413046.31513.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091117212709.GA2341@server.gs> Message-ID: <20091117214631.GA2457@server.gs> On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 10:27:09PM +0100, Gabriel wrote: > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 03:10:46PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 23:18 +0100, Gabriel wrote: > > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 05:53:46PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > > On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 00:28 +0100, Gabriel wrote: > > > > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:48:24AM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 01:58 +0100, linux at gabriel-striewe.de wrote: > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just today started using CCRMA. I installed the distribution > > > > > > > using your installation notes (installing fedora 10, yum update, > > > > > > > adding ccrma repo, installing ccrma). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to lspci, my soundcard is: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies Inc. VT1720/24 > > > > > > > [Envy24PT/HT] PCI Multi-Channel Audio Controller (rev 01) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, when I start jack using "jackd -R -dalsa", every few minutes I > > > > > > > get the error: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999959 usecs > > > > > > > JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And when in qjackctl I try to connect audio system input to output, it > > > > > > > doesn't do anything, just in the shell window in which I started jack: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 3 > > > > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 2 port_dst = 4 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which seems strange to me, since it doesn't show the connections in > > > > > > > qjackctl. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cat /proc/asound/cards says: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 > > > > > > > ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe800, irq 17 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope those error messages can give you a hint about what is > > > > > > > wrong. If there is any other output I can give you, please help.. > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmm, strange. The error message would suggest some sort of ALSA (the > > > > > > sound driver) problem. Does it happen only once? > > > > > > > > > > > > What happens if you use different parameters? > > > > > > jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > You can also try starting jack from within qjackctl (set the parameters > > > > > > in the "Setup" tab. Then press the "Start" button and check the messages > > > > > > in the "Messages" pane. Start a simple jack client like Hydrogen, load > > > > > > one of the demo patterns and connect the audio outputs in qjackctl to > > > > > > the system outputs. You might need to tweak input/output levels in > > > > > > alsamixer (or better yet, in envy24control - but I don't remember if > > > > > > 1724 based cards are supported). > > > > > > > > > > Hello, thanks for that. Today I took away my ICE1724 card and replaced > > > > > it with my old VIA card, as I mentioned in my earlier message > > > > > today. However, during the week I will come back to this issue. I just > > > > > for today didn't want into issues concerning having two sound cards in > > > > > the system. > > > > > > > > > > However, I ran into one other problem. If I log onto my system > > > > > directly, locally, I log on, and then I start jack with jackd -R -d > > > > > alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 without problems. I do have a kernel bug, > > > > > this one: > > > > > > > > > > Kernel failure message 1: > > > > > BUG: sleeping function called from invalid context IRQ-14(412) at arch/x86/mm/highmem_32.c:8 > > > > > in_atomic():0 [00000000], irqs_disabled():1 > > > > > Pid: 412, comm: IRQ-14 Not tainted 2.6.26.8-1.rt16.1.fc10.ccrma.i686.rt #1 > > > > > [] __might_sleep+0xe8/0xed > > > > > [] kmap+0x42/0x55 > > > > > [] sg_copy_buffer+0xa6/0x16c > > > > > [] sg_copy_to_buffer+0xd/0xf > > > > > [] atapi_qc_complete+0x25c/0x2b6 [libata] > > > > > [] __ata_qc_complete+0x8e/0x93 [libata] > > > > > [] ata_qc_complete+0x197/0x19d [libata] > > > > > [] ata_hsm_qc_complete+0x9b/0xb3 [libata] > > > > > [] ata_sff_hsm_move+0x602/0x64e [libata] > > > > > [] ? finish_task_switch+0x4b/0xf0 > > > > > [] ? __rt_spin_lock+0x24/0x61 > > > > > [] ata_sff_interrupt+0x153/0x1eb [libata] > > > > > [] handle_IRQ_event+0x49/0xe6 > > > > > [] do_irqd+0x12b/0x229 > > > > > [] ? do_irqd+0x0/0x229 > > > > > [] kthread+0x3b/0x61 > > > > > [] ? kthread+0x0/0x61 > > > > > [] kernel_thread_helper+0x7/0x10 > > > > > > > > > > However, it doesn't hinder jack and the other apps like qjackctl and > > > > > hydrogen from running. > > > > > > > > It is a knows issue with that particular kernel. You can safely ignore > > > > the message (there are newer kernels in the planetccrma-testing > > > > repositories you could try). > > > > > > > > > If I log in through ssh -Y from my Lapton > > > > > running Debian 5.0, it gives me the message: > > > > > > > > > > could not open driver .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > > > > could not open component .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > > > > jackdmp 1.9.2 > > > > > Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. > > > > > Copyright 2004-2008 Grame. > > > > > jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY > > > > > This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it > > > > > under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details > > > > > JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 > > > > > creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|1024|3|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit > > > > > control open "hw:0" (Permission denied) > > > > > Cannot initialize driver > > > > > no message buffer overruns > > > > > JackServer::Open() failed with -1 > > > > > Failed to start server > > > > > > > > > > This does not happen, if I log onto my computer locally (the one which > > > > > is actually running jack) and then log on through ssh. In that case, I > > > > > can use the jack apps through ssh without problems. If then, I log off > > > > > again locally, I have the same problem, so it is reproducable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do I do to be able to log in through ssh? > > > > > > > > For security external logins are not allowed access to the audio devices > > > > by default, only the logged in user in the main console can use them (so > > > > if you are logged in locally, and the remote user is the same things > > > > also work). > > > > > > > > In fc10 this is controlled through the "policy kit". For example, from a > > > > terminal: > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > $ polkit-action --action org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound > > > > action_id: org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound > > > > description: Directly access sound devices > > > > message: System policy prevents access to the sound devices > > > > default_any: no > > > > default_inactive: no > > > > default_active: yes > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > which means an active session (ie: local login) has access, everyone > > > > else does not have access. > > > > > > > > You can use polkit-gnome-authorization (a gui application) to make > > > > changes. Look for "Directly access sound devices" and change things so > > > > that "Anyone" has access. > > > > > > > Thanks for your help. I just wanted to note that this still didn't > > > work by default. > > > > You mean access to audio devices of a remotely logged in user? That is > > by design and normally not needed or wanted. > > Well, I use a Laptop as a thin client to my headless DAW. Since I > still need Windows (I still use Sibelius every now and then, but I am > in the process of transfering my scores to lilypond!), it gives me the > option of connection from Windows via ssh to my Linux Audio > Workstation. Mostly however, I use Linux, also on my Laptop. > > > > > > Fedora (at least version 10 which I am using) sets > > > the group of the audio devices to root by default. If however, I chgrp > > > the audio devices to a group of which I am a member (chgrp -R > > > audio /dev/snd* and chgrp -R audio /proc/asound/*), then everything > > > works fine. > > > > If you are in the proper group, of course. > > Yes, of course. Sorry not to have mentioned so. > > > > > > Just wanted to note that for documentation purposes. > > > > The chgrp will work, of course, or even a chmod 666 for them, but only > > until the next reboot (I think). If you want to use that workaround you > > will have to add something to the (for example) /etc/rc.d/rc.local. > > > > Authorization for audio devices uses acl's in addition to plain unix > > permissions. To see who currently has access to the audio devices do: > > > > getfacl /dev/snd/* > > > > You will see that while the plain unix device permissions are going to > > show up as root.audio for the audio devices, the _actual_ access > > permissions due to acl's (Access Control Lists) is wider and includes > > the currently logged in user (when there is someone logged in, of > > course). > > > > The proper thing to do is to update the policy kit authorization for > > them as outlined above. > > > > -- Fernando > > > > > > I used setfacl to set up the security policy. And now it works fine as > I wanted it to be. That should be a viable option, shouldn't it? > > > Greetings, Gabriel > > _______________________________________________ > PlanetCCRMA mailing list > PlanetCCRMA at ccrma.stanford.edu > http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma I do have to setfacl after every reboot, however. Gabriel From keith.sharp at gmail.com Tue Nov 17 16:17:48 2009 From: keith.sharp at gmail.com (Keith Sharp) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:17:48 +0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] book on ccrma? In-Reply-To: <20091117213334.GB2341@server.gs> References: <20091117213334.GB2341@server.gs> Message-ID: <2aad6e700911171617q646bfbd4q2e5023d0dc4b9e7@mail.gmail.com> 2009/11/18 Gabriel : > Hello, > > is there a book available on CCRMA? In case there isn't, I would like > to set one up. I will publish the sources on my website under the GNU > Free Documentation License. I am thinking about using LaTeX > \documentclass{book}. Any other idea? > > When it is quite usable, everybody can buy a printed copy on demand on > lily.com. Or just download the sources, convert them to pdf and print > them at home or read them on screen! > > It would be a book on setup of CCRMA on Fedora, installation, a guide > to jack and compatible programs, a section on ffado and so on. If you were going to do this I would suggest using Docbook and Publican as the toolchain. You should contact the Fedora Documentation team and see if they would be interested in helping you. Keith. From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Tue Nov 17 16:19:10 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 00:19:10 +0000 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 In-Reply-To: <20091117214631.GA2457@server.gs> References: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> <1258224504.17092.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091114232800.GA2970@server.gs> <1258250026.23835.11.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091116221840.GA2385@server.gs> <1258413046.31513.10.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091117212709.GA2341@server.gs> <20091117214631.GA2457@server.gs> Message-ID: <1258503550.11603.29.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Tue, 2009-11-17 at 22:46 +0100, Gabriel wrote: > On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 10:27:09PM +0100, Gabriel wrote: > > On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 03:10:46PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > On Mon, 2009-11-16 at 23:18 +0100, Gabriel wrote: > > > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 05:53:46PM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > > > On Sun, 2009-11-15 at 00:28 +0100, Gabriel wrote: > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:48:24AM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 01:58 +0100, linux at gabriel-striewe.de wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have just today started using CCRMA. I installed the distribution > > > > > > > > using your installation notes (installing fedora 10, yum update, > > > > > > > > adding ccrma repo, installing ccrma). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > According to lspci, my soundcard is: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies Inc. VT1720/24 > > > > > > > > [Envy24PT/HT] PCI Multi-Channel Audio Controller (rev 01) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now, when I start jack using "jackd -R -dalsa", every few minutes I > > > > > > > > get the error: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999959 usecs > > > > > > > > JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And when in qjackctl I try to connect audio system input to output, it > > > > > > > > doesn't do anything, just in the shell window in which I started jack: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 3 > > > > > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 2 port_dst = 4 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > which seems strange to me, since it doesn't show the connections in > > > > > > > > qjackctl. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > cat /proc/asound/cards says: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 0 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 > > > > > > > > ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe800, irq 17 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I hope those error messages can give you a hint about what is > > > > > > > > wrong. If there is any other output I can give you, please help.. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Hmmmm, strange. The error message would suggest some sort of ALSA (the > > > > > > > sound driver) problem. Does it happen only once? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What happens if you use different parameters? > > > > > > > jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You can also try starting jack from within qjackctl (set the parameters > > > > > > > in the "Setup" tab. Then press the "Start" button and check the messages > > > > > > > in the "Messages" pane. Start a simple jack client like Hydrogen, load > > > > > > > one of the demo patterns and connect the audio outputs in qjackctl to > > > > > > > the system outputs. You might need to tweak input/output levels in > > > > > > > alsamixer (or better yet, in envy24control - but I don't remember if > > > > > > > 1724 based cards are supported). > > > > > > > > > > > > Hello, thanks for that. Today I took away my ICE1724 card and replaced > > > > > > it with my old VIA card, as I mentioned in my earlier message > > > > > > today. However, during the week I will come back to this issue. I just > > > > > > for today didn't want into issues concerning having two sound cards in > > > > > > the system. > > > > > > > > > > > > However, I ran into one other problem. If I log onto my system > > > > > > directly, locally, I log on, and then I start jack with jackd -R -d > > > > > > alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 without problems. I do have a kernel bug, > > > > > > this one: > > > > > > > > > > > > Kernel failure message 1: > > > > > > BUG: sleeping function called from invalid context IRQ-14(412) at arch/x86/mm/highmem_32.c:8 > > > > > > in_atomic():0 [00000000], irqs_disabled():1 > > > > > > Pid: 412, comm: IRQ-14 Not tainted 2.6.26.8-1.rt16.1.fc10.ccrma.i686.rt #1 > > > > > > [] __might_sleep+0xe8/0xed > > > > > > [] kmap+0x42/0x55 > > > > > > [] sg_copy_buffer+0xa6/0x16c > > > > > > [] sg_copy_to_buffer+0xd/0xf > > > > > > [] atapi_qc_complete+0x25c/0x2b6 [libata] > > > > > > [] __ata_qc_complete+0x8e/0x93 [libata] > > > > > > [] ata_qc_complete+0x197/0x19d [libata] > > > > > > [] ata_hsm_qc_complete+0x9b/0xb3 [libata] > > > > > > [] ata_sff_hsm_move+0x602/0x64e [libata] > > > > > > [] ? finish_task_switch+0x4b/0xf0 > > > > > > [] ? __rt_spin_lock+0x24/0x61 > > > > > > [] ata_sff_interrupt+0x153/0x1eb [libata] > > > > > > [] handle_IRQ_event+0x49/0xe6 > > > > > > [] do_irqd+0x12b/0x229 > > > > > > [] ? do_irqd+0x0/0x229 > > > > > > [] kthread+0x3b/0x61 > > > > > > [] ? kthread+0x0/0x61 > > > > > > [] kernel_thread_helper+0x7/0x10 > > > > > > > > > > > > However, it doesn't hinder jack and the other apps like qjackctl and > > > > > > hydrogen from running. > > > > > > > > > > It is a knows issue with that particular kernel. You can safely ignore > > > > > the message (there are newer kernels in the planetccrma-testing > > > > > repositories you could try). > > > > > > > > > > > If I log in through ssh -Y from my Lapton > > > > > > running Debian 5.0, it gives me the message: > > > > > > > > > > > > could not open driver .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > > > > > could not open component .so '/usr/lib/jack/jack_firewire.so': libffado.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory > > > > > > jackdmp 1.9.2 > > > > > > Copyright 2001-2005 Paul Davis and others. > > > > > > Copyright 2004-2008 Grame. > > > > > > jackdmp comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY > > > > > > This is free software, and you are welcome to redistribute it > > > > > > under certain conditions; see the file COPYING for details > > > > > > JACK server starting in realtime mode with priority 10 > > > > > > creating alsa driver ... hw:0|hw:0|1024|3|48000|0|0|nomon|swmeter|-|32bit > > > > > > control open "hw:0" (Permission denied) > > > > > > Cannot initialize driver > > > > > > no message buffer overruns > > > > > > JackServer::Open() failed with -1 > > > > > > Failed to start server > > > > > > > > > > > > This does not happen, if I log onto my computer locally (the one which > > > > > > is actually running jack) and then log on through ssh. In that case, I > > > > > > can use the jack apps through ssh without problems. If then, I log off > > > > > > again locally, I have the same problem, so it is reproducable. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What do I do to be able to log in through ssh? > > > > > > > > > > For security external logins are not allowed access to the audio devices > > > > > by default, only the logged in user in the main console can use them (so > > > > > if you are logged in locally, and the remote user is the same things > > > > > also work). > > > > > > > > > > In fc10 this is controlled through the "policy kit". For example, from a > > > > > terminal: > > > > > > > > > > ---- > > > > > $ polkit-action --action org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound > > > > > action_id: org.freedesktop.hal.device-access.sound > > > > > description: Directly access sound devices > > > > > message: System policy prevents access to the sound devices > > > > > default_any: no > > > > > default_inactive: no > > > > > default_active: yes > > > > > ---- > > > > > > > > > > which means an active session (ie: local login) has access, everyone > > > > > else does not have access. > > > > > > > > > > You can use polkit-gnome-authorization (a gui application) to make > > > > > changes. Look for "Directly access sound devices" and change things so > > > > > that "Anyone" has access. > > > > > > > > > Thanks for your help. I just wanted to note that this still didn't > > > > work by default. > > > > > > You mean access to audio devices of a remotely logged in user? That is > > > by design and normally not needed or wanted. > > > > Well, I use a Laptop as a thin client to my headless DAW. Since I > > still need Windows (I still use Sibelius every now and then, but I am > > in the process of transfering my scores to lilypond!), it gives me the > > option of connection from Windows via ssh to my Linux Audio > > Workstation. Mostly however, I use Linux, also on my Laptop. > > > > > > > > > Fedora (at least version 10 which I am using) sets > > > > the group of the audio devices to root by default. If however, I chgrp > > > > the audio devices to a group of which I am a member (chgrp -R > > > > audio /dev/snd* and chgrp -R audio /proc/asound/*), then everything > > > > works fine. > > > > > > If you are in the proper group, of course. > > > > Yes, of course. Sorry not to have mentioned so. > > > > > > > > > Just wanted to note that for documentation purposes. > > > > > > The chgrp will work, of course, or even a chmod 666 for them, but only > > > until the next reboot (I think). If you want to use that workaround you > > > will have to add something to the (for example) /etc/rc.d/rc.local. > > > > > > Authorization for audio devices uses acl's in addition to plain unix > > > permissions. To see who currently has access to the audio devices do: > > > > > > getfacl /dev/snd/* > > > > > > You will see that while the plain unix device permissions are going to > > > show up as root.audio for the audio devices, the _actual_ access > > > permissions due to acl's (Access Control Lists) is wider and includes > > > the currently logged in user (when there is someone logged in, of > > > course). > > > > > > The proper thing to do is to update the policy kit authorization for > > > them as outlined above. > > > > > > > I used setfacl to set up the security policy. And now it works fine as > > I wanted it to be. That should be a viable option, shouldn't it? > > > I do have to setfacl after every reboot, however. Yes, it is conceptually similar to doing a chgrp/chown/chmod. It is not persistent. The persistent solution is to use the policy kit as explained above. -- Fernando From frisk.h at gmail.com Wed Nov 18 05:40:13 2009 From: frisk.h at gmail.com (Henrik Frisk) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 14:40:13 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] Slightly OT: routing sound to the headphone jack on MBP in ALSA Message-ID: <311224200911180540h67d52915m836f3f35abf1a2ac@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I have a relatively new MBP 17'' on which I have FC11 installed. The internal sound card has individual ports for the speakers and the line out/headphone jack and plugging a jack in the headphone out does not automatically re-route the audio. For the most part, I'm quite ok with this, in Jack I just choose whatever ports I want to use. But occasionally I want an app to route its audio to the headphone jack only. Is there a way to change the order of the ports in alsa (I'm assuming that if the headphone out was on port 1/2, something like Flash would route its audio to those ports by default, but I may be wrong here)? Or does anyone know of another work around? Thanks for any hints, /henrik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/attachments/20091118/eaa073ef/attachment.html From belliott4488 at verizon.net Wed Nov 18 08:10:37 2009 From: belliott4488 at verizon.net (Bruce Elliott) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:10:37 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] setting up new system with Delta 1010LT + Intel HDA Message-ID: <375021.20053.qm@web84104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'm setting up a new PC and hope to use the CCRMA packages for some simple home recording projects. The PC has a 64-bit processor, so I've installed the x86_64 version of Fedora 10. I've done the basic steps of adding the Planet CCRMA repositories and installed the real time kernel, so I'm think I'm ready to try and get started. First, I need to get my cards set up right. I have an M-Audio Delta 1010LT card, which I'd like to use for working with music and the Intel HDA card built in to the motherboard, which I'd be happy to use for things like system notifications and other incidental sounds. Here is what the system tells me about the cards: # cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [Intel ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel HDA Intel at 0xf9200000 irq 22 1 [M1010LT ]: ICE1712 - M Audio Delta 1010LT M Audio Delta 1010LT at 0xb000, irq 20 Here is my modprobe.conf: # cat /etc/modprobe.conf alias snd-card-0 snd_hda_intel options snd-card-0 index=0 options snd_hda_intel index=0 alias snd-card-1 snd_ice1712 options snd-card-1 index=1 options snd_ice1712 index=1 I put the Intel card first, since the CCRMA installation instructions say that the first one is "usually the default device used by all programs", and I figured that if some application decides to make an unexpected noise, then I don't want it going through my music system; in other words, I'd like to choose what I send through the Delta 1010 card. Does that make sense? Here's what is happening so far: I get no sounds out of my speakers except when I go to the KDE System Settings|Multimedia and test some of the output devices. The list of devices, which I can order differently for Notifications, Music, Video, etc, shows these: PulseAudio HDA Intel (ALC883 Analog) M Audio Delta 1010LT (ICE1712 multi) HDA Intel (ALC883 Digital) Default PulseAudio Sound Server The only ones that produce any sounds when I test them are the HDA Analog device and the Delta 1010 device, but the weird thing is that output seems to be coming out of the built-in output jack (on the motherboard) in either case. Does the OS route output from the Delta 1010 through the built-in card to its output jack? Also, I've connected only the first two RCA analog outputs from the Delta 1010 to my desktop speaker system - should I use a different pair of outputs for testing? Playing a CD directly from the CD drive works, but playing music files from Amarok does not. I'll leave it at that for now. Any suggestions for what I should do next? Thanks, Bruce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/attachments/20091118/febf9c92/attachment.html From juanig at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 09:21:32 2009 From: juanig at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Juan Reyes) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:21:32 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] book on ccrma? In-Reply-To: <20091117213334.GB2341@server.gs> References: <20091117213334.GB2341@server.gs> Message-ID: <1258564892.26099.68.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> > is there a book available on CCRMA? In case there isn't, I would like > to set one up. I will publish the sources on my website under the GNU > Free Documentation License. I am thinking about using LaTeX > \documentclass{book}. Any other idea? Hi Gabriel, I am not so sure. As with all documentation on this regard: things keep changing as we speak, and it's very hard to keep up. I would go for a HowTo-wiki-blog style documentation nowadays. BTW, Is there a LaTeX "\documentclass{wiki}" or a PERL application like latex2html to get documentation right on wiki style?. Just ideas, --* Juan Reyes From belliott4488 at verizon.net Wed Nov 18 09:30:05 2009 From: belliott4488 at verizon.net (Bruce Elliott) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:30:05 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] book on ccrma? In-Reply-To: <1258564892.26099.68.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> References: <20091117213334.GB2341@server.gs> <1258564892.26099.68.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> Message-ID: <740972.20461.qm@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I'd love to see a Planet CCRMA wiki. I've also wondered why there is no on-line forum for discussions, but only the mailing lists. Wouldn't those kinds of things reduce the number of repeated questions on this list? (Maybe like this question itself - I have not been a regular follower of this list, so I don't know if this has been asked and answered, and searching through the archives is daunting.) - Bruce ________________________________ From: Juan Reyes To: Gabriel Cc: planetccrma at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 12:21:32 PM Subject: Re: [PlanetCCRMA] book on ccrma? > is there a book available on CCRMA? In case there isn't, I would like > to set one up. I will publish the sources on my website under the GNU > Free Documentation License. I am thinking about using LaTeX > \documentclass{book}. Any other idea? Hi Gabriel, I am not so sure. As with all documentation on this regard: things keep changing as we speak, and it's very hard to keep up. I would go for a HowTo-wiki-blog style documentation nowadays. BTW, Is there a LaTeX "\documentclass{wiki}" or a PERL application like latex2html to get documentation right on wiki style?. Just ideas, --* Juan Reyes _______________________________________________ PlanetCCRMA mailing list PlanetCCRMA at ccrma.stanford.edu http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/attachments/20091118/7523f805/attachment.html From juanig at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 09:59:08 2009 From: juanig at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Juan Reyes) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 09:59:08 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] book on ccrma? In-Reply-To: <740972.20461.qm@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <20091117213334.GB2341@server.gs> <1258564892.26099.68.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> <740972.20461.qm@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1258567148.26099.102.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> Hi Bruce, I guess the problem is time and the rate of change on applications and methods. Plus you have to test things before you write about them. Furthermore there are several paths you might want to go. On one side there is Kernel and system's savvy people, and on the other audio and music inclined engineers, performers and composers. Could we use the same kind of language on both groups?. But don't get me wrong I am in favor of a PlanetCCRMA wiki knowing that it requires a lot of volunteer time and effort. --* Juan On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 09:30 -0800, Bruce Elliott wrote: > I'd love to see a Planet CCRMA wiki. I've also wondered why there is > no on-line forum for discussions, but only the mailing lists. > Wouldn't those kinds of things reduce the number of repeated questions > on this list? (Maybe like this question itself - I have not been a > regular follower of this list, so I don't know if this has been asked > and answered, and searching through the archives is daunting.) > > - Bruce > > From linux at gabriel-striewe.de Wed Nov 18 10:28:56 2009 From: linux at gabriel-striewe.de (Gabriel) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:28:56 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] problem on fedora 10, CCRMA, jack and terratec 22 In-Reply-To: <1258224504.17092.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <20091114005833.GB27076@server.gs> <1258224504.17092.9.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20091118182856.GA2818@server.gs> On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 10:48:24AM -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > On Sat, 2009-11-14 at 01:58 +0100, linux at gabriel-striewe.de wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I have just today started using CCRMA. I installed the distribution > > using your installation notes (installing fedora 10, yum update, > > adding ccrma repo, installing ccrma). > > > > According to lspci, my soundcard is: > > > > 00:06.0 Multimedia audio controller: VIA Technologies Inc. VT1720/24 > > [Envy24PT/HT] PCI Multi-Channel Audio Controller (rev 01) > > > > Now, when I start jack using "jackd -R -dalsa", every few minutes I > > get the error: > > > > ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999959 usecs > > JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle > > > > And when in qjackctl I try to connect audio system input to output, it > > doesn't do anything, just in the shell window in which I started jack: > > > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 1 port_dst = 3 > > JackGraphManager::Connect already connected port_src = 2 port_dst = 4 > > > > which seems strange to me, since it doesn't show the connections in > > qjackctl. > > > > cat /proc/asound/cards says: > > > > 0 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 > > ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe800, irq 17 > > > > I hope those error messages can give you a hint about what is > > wrong. If there is any other output I can give you, please help.. > > Hmmmm, strange. The error message would suggest some sort of ALSA (the > sound driver) problem. Does it happen only once? > > What happens if you use different parameters? > jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:0 -p 1024 -n 3 > > You can also try starting jack from within qjackctl (set the parameters > in the "Setup" tab. Then press the "Start" button and check the messages > in the "Messages" pane. Start a simple jack client like Hydrogen, load > one of the demo patterns and connect the audio outputs in qjackctl to > the system outputs. You might need to tweak input/output levels in > alsamixer (or better yet, in envy24control - but I don't remember if > 1724 based cards are supported). > > -- Fernando > > Well, I did set up both cards in my system now. But the ICE1724 is still not working. When I start jackd with the parameters you gave me jackd -R -d alsa -d hw:1 -p 1024 -n 3 (hw:1 because I have two soundcards, as "cat /proc/asound" says: 0 [CMI8738 ]: CMI8738-MC6 - C-Media CMI8738 C-Media CMI8738 (model 55) at 0xe800, irq 17 1 [ICE1724 ]: ICE1724 - ICEnsemble ICE1724 ICEnsemble ICE1724 at 0xe000, irq 19 ... I still have every 30 seconds the following message: ALSA: poll time out, polled for 31999267 usecs JackAudioDriver::ProcessAsync: read error, skip cycle And when, as you told me to, I start hydrogen, it does not make a connection to the system output. With my cmedia card this works fine, it makes the connection automatically on startup of hydrogen, and I can disconnect and reconnect. But my the ICE1724, it does not do anything, even if in qjackctl I try to connect hydrogen output to system output. I tried to find the problem on an alsa level. And I see that in the alsamixer (as well as alsamixer-gui) I cannot unmute the cards. I can give you the amixer-output of both cards: for my first card (the cmedia): Simple mixer control 'Master',0 Capabilities: pvolume Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Playback 0 - 31 Mono: Front Left: Playback 28 [90%] Front Right: Playback 28 [90%] Simple mixer control '3D Control - Switch',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [off] Simple mixer control 'PCM',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch pswitch-joined cswitch Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Playback 0 - 31 Front Left: Playback 27 [87%] [on] Capture [off] Front Right: Playback 27 [87%] [on] Capture [off] Simple mixer control 'Synth',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch pswitch-joined cswitch Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Playback 0 - 31 Front Left: Playback 30 [97%] [on] Capture [off] Front Right: Playback 30 [97%] [on] Capture [off] Simple mixer control 'Line',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch cswitch Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Playback 0 - 31 Front Left: Playback 31 [100%] [off] Capture [off] Front Right: Playback 31 [100%] [off] Capture [off] Simple mixer control 'Line-In Mode',0 Capabilities: enum Items: 'Line-In' 'Rear Output' 'Bass Output' Item0: 'Line-In' Simple mixer control 'CD',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch cswitch Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Playback 0 - 31 Front Left: Playback 31 [100%] [off] Capture [off] Front Right: Playback 31 [100%] [off] Capture [off] Simple mixer control 'Mic',0 Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined cvolume cvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined cswitch cswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Capture channels: Mono Limits: Playback 0 - 31 Capture 0 - 7 Mono: Playback 31 [100%] [off] Capture 7 [100%] [off] Simple mixer control 'Mic Boost',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined cswitch cswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Capture channels: Mono Mono: Playback [off] Capture [off] Simple mixer control 'Mic-In Mode',0 Capabilities: enum Items: 'Mic-In' 'Center/LFE Output' Item0: 'Center/LFE Output' Simple mixer control 'Phone',0 Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Limits: Playback 0 - 7 Mono: Playback 7 [100%] [off] Simple mixer control 'IEC958 5V',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [on] Simple mixer control 'IEC958 Copyright',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [off] Simple mixer control 'IEC958 In Monitor',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [off] Simple mixer control 'IEC958 In Phase Inverse',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [off] Simple mixer control 'IEC958 In Select',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [off] Simple mixer control 'IEC958 In Valid',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [off] Simple mixer control 'IEC958 Loop',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [off] Simple mixer control 'IEC958 Output',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [off] Simple mixer control 'PC Speaker',0 Capabilities: pvolume pvolume-joined pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Limits: Playback 0 - 3 Mono: Playback 3 [100%] [on] Simple mixer control 'Aux',0 Capabilities: pvolume pswitch cswitch Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right Limits: Playback 0 - 15 Front Left: Playback 15 [100%] [off] Capture [off] Front Right: Playback 15 [100%] [off] Capture [off] Simple mixer control 'Four Channel Mode',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [on] --- and now for the second card (the ICE 1724): Simple mixer control 'Multi Track Internal Clock',0 Capabilities: enum Items: '8000' '9600' '11025' '12000' '16000' '22050' '24000' '32000' '44100' '48000' 'IEC958 Input' Item0: 'IEC958 Input' Simple mixer control 'Multi Track Peak',0 Capabilities: volume Playback channels: Front Left - Front Right - Rear Left - Rear Right - Front Center - Woofer - Side Left - Side Right - Rear Center - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? Capture channels: Front Left - Front Right - Rear Left - Rear Right - Front Center - Woofer - Side Left - Side Right - Rear Center - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? - ? Limits: 0 - 255 Front Left: 0 [0%] Front Right: 0 [0%] Rear Left: 0 [0%] Rear Right: 0 [0%] Front Center: 0 [0%] Woofer: 0 [0%] Side Left: 0 [0%] Side Right: 0 [0%] Rear Center: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] ?: 0 [0%] Simple mixer control 'Multi Track Rate Locking',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [on] Simple mixer control 'Multi Track Rate Reset',0 Capabilities: pswitch pswitch-joined Playback channels: Mono Mono: Playback [on] To be honest, I cannot make up too much of the amixer output, but I will try to get aquainted with it. I hope this helps. Greetings, Gabriel From linux at gabriel-striewe.de Wed Nov 18 10:36:58 2009 From: linux at gabriel-striewe.de (Gabriel) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 19:36:58 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] book on ccrma? In-Reply-To: <1258567148.26099.102.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> References: <20091117213334.GB2341@server.gs> <1258564892.26099.68.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> <740972.20461.qm@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1258567148.26099.102.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> Message-ID: <20091118183658.GB2818@server.gs> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 09:59:08AM -0800, Juan Reyes wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > I guess the problem is time and the rate of change on applications and > methods. Plus you have to test things before you write about them. > > Furthermore there are several paths you might want to go. On one side > there is Kernel and system's savvy people, and on the other audio and > music inclined engineers, performers and composers. Could we use the > same kind of language on both groups?. > > But don't get me wrong I am in favor of a PlanetCCRMA wiki knowing that > it requires a lot of volunteer time and effort. > > --* Juan > > On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 09:30 -0800, Bruce Elliott wrote: > > I'd love to see a Planet CCRMA wiki. I've also wondered why there is > > no on-line forum for discussions, but only the mailing lists. > > Wouldn't those kinds of things reduce the number of repeated questions > > on this list? (Maybe like this question itself - I have not been a > > regular follower of this list, so I don't know if this has been asked > > and answered, and searching through the archives is daunting.) > > > > - Bruce > > > > > > So what we need is a wiki with the option of pdf output. I know the idea of printing a book on a subject which is so quickly outdated seems strange. But some people might want to read it. And lily.com makes the whole thing convenient and cheap. I need to have a look for a wiki with pdf output. The mailing lists are still, from my point of view, the right place to help each other on installation and setup issues. Gabriel From jos at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 11:54:07 2009 From: jos at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Julius Smith) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 12:54:07 -0700 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] book on ccrma? In-Reply-To: <20091118183658.GB2818@server.gs> References: <20091117213334.GB2341@server.gs> <1258564892.26099.68.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> <740972.20461.qm@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1258567148.26099.102.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> <20091118183658.GB2818@server.gs> Message-ID: <200911181954.nAIJsUdw008588@cm-mail.stanford.edu> A system I plan to try using is to write in LaTeX (thereby getting top quality PDF), convert to HTML using latex2html, and then using html2wiki to generate Wiki pages: http://search.cpan.org/~diberri/HTML-WikiConverter-0.68/bin/html2wiki The only step I haven't tried yet is html2wiki, but the others are solid old tools by now. - jos At 11:36 AM 11/18/2009, Gabriel wrote: >On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 09:59:08AM -0800, Juan Reyes wrote: > > Hi Bruce, > > > > I guess the problem is time and the rate of change on applications and > > methods. Plus you have to test things before you write about them. > > > > Furthermore there are several paths you might want to go. On one side > > there is Kernel and system's savvy people, and on the other audio and > > music inclined engineers, performers and composers. Could we use the > > same kind of language on both groups?. > > > > But don't get me wrong I am in favor of a PlanetCCRMA wiki knowing that > > it requires a lot of volunteer time and effort. > > > > --* Juan > > > > On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 09:30 -0800, Bruce Elliott wrote: > > > I'd love to see a Planet CCRMA wiki. I've also wondered why there is > > > no on-line forum for discussions, but only the mailing lists. > > > Wouldn't those kinds of things reduce the number of repeated questions > > > on this list? (Maybe like this question itself - I have not been a > > > regular follower of this list, so I don't know if this has been asked > > > and answered, and searching through the archives is daunting.) > > > > > > - Bruce > > > > > > > > > > > >So what we need is a wiki with the option of pdf output. I know the >idea of printing a book on a subject which is so quickly outdated >seems strange. But some people might want to read it. And lily.com >makes the whole thing convenient and cheap. > >I need to have a look for a wiki with pdf output. > >The mailing lists are still, from my point of view, the right place to help >each other on installation and setup issues. > >Gabriel > >_______________________________________________ >PlanetCCRMA mailing list >PlanetCCRMA at ccrma.stanford.edu >http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma Julius O. Smith III Prof. of Music and Assoc. Prof. (by courtesy) of Electrical Engineering CCRMA, Stanford University http://ccrma.stanford.edu/~jos/ From belliott4488 at verizon.net Wed Nov 18 11:56:12 2009 From: belliott4488 at verizon.net (Bruce Elliott) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 11:56:12 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] book on ccrma? In-Reply-To: <1258567148.26099.102.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> References: <20091117213334.GB2341@server.gs> <1258564892.26099.68.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> <740972.20461.qm@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1258567148.26099.102.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> Message-ID: <672986.28922.qm@web84104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Well, I guess I might have made this more complicated by bringing up the idea of a Planet CCRMA forum, so let me address both: WIKI: I think this is best for exactly what you describe, i.e. rapidly changing applications and procedures. A static set of documentation - either static web pages or an actual book - is harder to maintain and keep up-to-date. A wiki would require only a reliable set of members from the community who would collectively make sure that the information stayed up-to-date, each keeping an eye on his own areas of personal expertise. FORUM: I like forums precisely because of the problem of mixing levels of sophistication on one mailing list. The forum sites to which I belong (e.g. www.fedoraforum.org) all have many forums for different interests. I could imagine a forum for beginners, one for installation problems, one for hardware issues, one for developers, another for musicians and producers, etc. I think it makes it easier for each member to find the information he's looking for, plus there is the historial record so that people can more easily search and find answers to their questions that might have been previously posted. The disadvantage, of course, is the time that would be needed to maintain either of these sites, especially if the forums were to be moderated. On the other hand, I've never known how Fernando could keep up with these mailing lists as well as he does, maintain the web pages, and still get his real work done. I would hope that some of the effort that currently goes into doing those things would be relieved, especially if it could be spread to more members of the community. - Bruce ________________________________ From: Juan Reyes To: Bruce Elliott Cc: planetccrma at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 12:59:08 PM Subject: Re: [PlanetCCRMA] book on ccrma? Hi Bruce, I guess the problem is time and the rate of change on applications and methods. Plus you have to test things before you write about them. Furthermore there are several paths you might want to go. On one side there is Kernel and system's savvy people, and on the other audio and music inclined engineers, performers and composers. Could we use the same kind of language on both groups?. But don't get me wrong I am in favor of a PlanetCCRMA wiki knowing that it requires a lot of volunteer time and effort. --* Juan On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 09:30 -0800, Bruce Elliott wrote: > I'd love to see a Planet CCRMA wiki. I've also wondered why there is > no on-line forum for discussions, but only the mailing lists. > Wouldn't those kinds of things reduce the number of repeated questions > on this list? (Maybe like this question itself - I have not been a > regular follower of this list, so I don't know if this has been asked > and answered, and searching through the archives is daunting.) > > - Bruce > > _______________________________________________ PlanetCCRMA mailing list PlanetCCRMA at ccrma.stanford.edu http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/attachments/20091118/1bbaf6b1/attachment.html From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 13:39:49 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:39:49 +0000 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] fedora 12 support (coming?) Message-ID: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> Hey, many might have noticed that: http://fedoraproject.org/ now points to Fedora 12 as the latest version :-) You have been warned! As with new versions of anything I'd wait before installing the latest shinny object in a computer you need (see below for more details). So here's what I can offer right now: - installing planetccrma-repo will point to your planetary repositories - there is a planetccrma-core package you can install: it will pull a 2.6.31.6-rt19 based kernel (with as many Fedora patches as I could patch cleanly into the rt modified tree) and the cool rtirq script (newer version that works with 2.6.31.x rt kernels) - there's also a jack-audio-connection-kit 1.9.4 svn package with the correct rt priorities to match the kernel and rtirq - and a build of ffado rc1 (same as in fc11). Not very well tested but jack2 svn solves a transport problem that was triggered by ardour exporting a soundfile. (after installing the newer jack you will need to logout/login to get the correct permissions for locking memory and getting access to realtime scheduling). You can see what's there here: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/mirror/fedora/linux/planetccrma/12/i386/repoview/ http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/mirror/fedora/linux/planetcore/12/i386/repoview/ (replace i386 by x86_64 for the 64 bit links) BUT My first tests of fc12 indicate a bit of instability, as is to be expected in a new release. DO READ the release notes: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/en-US/html/ and specially the most common bugs: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F12_bugs My limited experience: a preupgrade from fc11 failed. An initial install from the fc12 i386 dvd also failed. In both cases I was not looking when it happened but the result was a blank screen with a wait cursor, looking into the text consoles I saw a failed install message but did not look too closely into what had happened. I managed to do an install telling the installer that I wanted to use "basic video" (or words to that effect). This resulted in a successful install and a usable reboot (with "nomodeset" in the kernel boot line). I'm using a radeon card in that machine, most probably a problem with the new modesetting kernel support (it is in the new features list as well as in the new bugs list :-)... I also got a few kernel oops while trying out things, got spontaneously logged out and firefox misteriously died while surfing. Not reliable (the stock fedora kernel on that particular hardware). Surprisingly the rt kernel performed better, no oopses and I managed to boot without having to use "nomodeset" in the kernel boot line. With that kernel and the new jack "everything" seems to work - my testing was limited to one of the demos of hydrogen, so interpret "everything" as just one hydrogen demo :-) Enjoy (if you can)! -- Fernando From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Wed Nov 18 13:45:37 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:45:37 +0000 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] fedora 12 support (coming?) In-Reply-To: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1258580737.15092.109.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 21:39 +0000, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > Surprisingly the rt kernel performed better, no oopses and I managed to > boot without having to use "nomodeset" in the kernel boot line. With > that kernel and the new jack "everything" seems to work - my testing was > limited to one of the demos of hydrogen, so interpret "everything" as > just one hydrogen demo :-) Spoke too soon... Hydrogen did not last long. Segfaulted, and then Jack. Not looking good. Hmmm, unlikely that it is the hardware, that was working fine with 11... Oh well. You have been warned, again :-) -- Fernando From frisk.h at gmail.com Wed Nov 18 14:06:09 2009 From: frisk.h at gmail.com (Henrik Frisk) Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 23:06:09 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] Slightly OT: routing sound to the headphone jack on MBP in ALSA In-Reply-To: <311224200911180540h67d52915m836f3f35abf1a2ac@mail.gmail.com> References: <311224200911180540h67d52915m836f3f35abf1a2ac@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <311224200911181406t368792feu2021413ed6ebb3b0@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Henrik Frisk wrote: > Hi, > > I have a relatively new MBP 17'' on which I have FC11 installed. The > internal sound card has individual ports for the speakers and the line > out/headphone jack and plugging a jack in the headphone out does not > automatically re-route the audio. For the most part, I'm quite ok with this, > in Jack I just choose whatever ports I want to use. But occasionally I want > an app to route its audio to the headphone jack only. Is there a way to > change the order of the ports in alsa (I'm assuming that if the headphone > out was on port 1/2, something like Flash would route its audio to those > ports by default, but I may be wrong here)? Or does anyone know of another > work around? > > Thanks for any hints, > > OK, sorry about the noise. I had forgotten about PulseAudio where all of this is set... FWIW, the alsa driver for the nVidia card in this laptop (MBP 5,2) allows for it to be used in 4ch or 2ch mode. In 2ch mode the sound is routed to the headphone jack only, and in 4ch mode to both speakers and headphone (under PulseAudio, running Jack you may choose either or). Modes are switched in the alsamixer. best, /henrik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/attachments/20091118/c14326de/attachment.html From juanig at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 09:15:59 2009 From: juanig at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Juan Reyes) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 09:15:59 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] book on ccrma? In-Reply-To: <200911181954.nAIJsUdw008588@cm-mail.stanford.edu> References: <20091117213334.GB2341@server.gs> <1258564892.26099.68.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> <740972.20461.qm@web84105.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <1258567148.26099.102.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> <20091118183658.GB2818@server.gs> <200911181954.nAIJsUdw008588@cm-mail.stanford.edu> Message-ID: <1258650959.29468.7.camel@blueberry.maginvent.org> Thanks a lot Julius. I have to give it a try!. --* Juan On Wed, 2009-11-18 at 12:54 -0700, Julius Smith wrote: > A system I plan to try using is to write in LaTeX (thereby getting > top quality PDF), convert to HTML using latex2html, and then using > html2wiki to generate Wiki pages: > > http://search.cpan.org/~diberri/HTML-WikiConverter-0.68/bin/html2wiki > > The only step I haven't tried yet is html2wiki, but the others are > solid old tools by now. > > - jos > From sandysj at juno.com Thu Nov 19 11:58:51 2009 From: sandysj at juno.com (Jeff Sandys) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 11:58:51 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] fedora 12 support (coming?) In-Reply-To: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <26421460.post@talk.nabble.com> Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > Hey, many might have noticed that: > http://fedoraproject.org/ > now points to Fedora 12 as the latest version :-) > > You have been warned! As with new versions of anything I'd wait before > installing the latest shinny object in a computer you need (see below > for more details). > > So here's what I can offer right now: > - installing planetccrma-repo will point to your planetary repositories > - there is a planetccrma-core package you can install: > ... > > You can see what's there here: > http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/mirror/fedora/linux/planetccrma/12/i386/repoview/ > http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/mirror/fedora/linux/planetcore/12/i386/repoview/ > (replace i386 by x86_64 for the 64 bit links) > > BUT > > My first tests of fc12 indicate a bit of instability, as is to be > expected in a new release. > > DO READ the release notes: > http://docs.fedoraproject.org/release-notes/f12/en-US/html/ > > and specially the most common bugs: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F12_bugs > > ... > Enjoy (if you can)! > -- Fernando > Fernando, Thanks for your efforts to keep Planet CCRMA up to date. Have you thought of building a Koji system to auto build all the Planet CCRMA packages? It could be set up to use Rawhide during the fedora development and might easy the amount effort required for each new release, (after the huge effort setting up a Koji server the first time). And it might help in encouraging some of the CCRMA packages that meet fedora's license requirements to migrate to 'core'. Let me know how I can help, though I'm more of a user than a developer. -- Jeff Sandys -- View this message in context: http://old.nabble.com/fedora-12-support-%28coming-%29-tp26416261p26421460.html Sent from the PlanetCCRMA - General mailing list archive at Nabble.com. From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 13:53:29 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 21:53:29 +0000 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] fedora 12 support (coming?) In-Reply-To: <26421460.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> <26421460.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <1258667609.20239.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 11:58 -0800, Jeff Sandys wrote: > Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > > Hey, many might have noticed that: > > http://fedoraproject.org/ > > now points to Fedora 12 as the latest version :-) > > > > You can see what's there here: > > http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/mirror/fedora/linux/planetccrma/12/i386/repoview/ > > http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/mirror/fedora/linux/planetcore/12/i386/repoview/ > > (replace i386 by x86_64 for the 64 bit links) > > [MUNCH] > Fernando, > Thanks for your efforts to keep Planet CCRMA up to date. > > Have you thought of building a Koji system to auto build all the > Planet CCRMA packages? I'm not using koji, still using "plague" instead (the previous Fedora build system). So yes, I have a build server and all related infrastructure. After dealing with the inevitable problems of a new base os to support I'm now in the process of building new packages (I still have to upgrade my "automatically build all" script - after that it is much easier). > It could be set up to use Rawhide during the fedora development > and might easy the amount effort required for each new release, > (after the huge effort setting up a Koji server the first time). > And it might help in encouraging some of the CCRMA packages > that meet fedora's license requirements to migrate to 'core'. Well, for that we need more packagers... I'm not sure I want to track rawhide, that would be too much work for very little return (who is into serious audio work that would actually use rawhide in production?? :-). > Let me know how I can help, though I'm more of a user than > a developer. Thanks! -- Fernando From lowen at pari.edu Thu Nov 19 14:36:53 2009 From: lowen at pari.edu (Lamar Owen) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 17:36:53 -0500 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] fedora 12 support (coming?) In-Reply-To: <1258667609.20239.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <200911191736.53293.lowen@pari.edu> On Thursday 19 November 2009 04:53:29 pm Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > Well, for [tracking and using Rawhide] we need more packagers... I'm not > sure I want to track rawhide, that would be too much work for very little > return (who is into serious audio work that would actually use rawhide in > production?? :-). Me. If nothing else, this could help the quality of the 'stepwise final' products and catch bugs sooner in the development cycle..... But I've tracked rawhide before, well, before Fedora was Fedora, and Red Hat Linux was in the versions where Red Hat Enterprise Linux stands today. I don't necessary relish the remembrance, but I do recall catching things in rawhide and reporting bugs on them..... I also track Ardour SVN, FWIW. I don't build every rev, but there are some interesting things that come down that particular pipe. And the only real test is to actually use it; breakage and all. Now, if I'm doing a 'by the hour' mix or something I break out something a little more supported than current SVN..... Getting ready to adventure into 3.0 territory.... From shakti at bayarea.net Thu Nov 19 15:15:50 2009 From: shakti at bayarea.net (Tracey Hytry) Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2009 15:15:50 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] fedora 12 support (coming?) In-Reply-To: <1258667609.20239.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> <26421460.post@talk.nabble.com> <1258667609.20239.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20091119151550.54612ac6.shakti@bayarea.net> Thanks for trying to get something together on fedora 12. I've been running fedora 12 on a machine for a while and it seems pretty stable. I too tried the pre-upgrade from fedora 11 to 12 right after the beta came out. I guess I got lucky and everything worked out very well for me. Later, I'll load up your newest fedora 12 stuff and give it a try. Thanks for the hard work, I've been waiting for the "31" rt kernel. Tracey From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Thu Nov 19 17:02:55 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 01:02:55 +0000 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] fedora 12 support (coming?) In-Reply-To: <20091119151550.54612ac6.shakti@bayarea.net> References: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> <26421460.post@talk.nabble.com> <1258667609.20239.54.camel@localhost.localdomain> <20091119151550.54612ac6.shakti@bayarea.net> Message-ID: <1258678975.20239.58.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Thu, 2009-11-19 at 15:15 -0800, Tracey Hytry wrote: > Thanks for trying to get something together on fedora 12. > I've been running fedora 12 on a machine for a while and it seems > pretty stable. I too tried the pre-upgrade from fedora 11 to 12 > right after the beta came out. I guess I got lucky and everything > worked out very well for me. I'm sure something weird is going on at the hardware level. I literally did not have time today to even look at the test machine. > Later, I'll load up your newest fedora 12 stuff and give it a try. > Thanks for the hard work, I've been waiting for the "31" rt kernel. I've had it for some time (and have been tracking the releases) but the problem is the "nomodeset" stuff in fc10 & fc11 which cannot be easily made the default without affecting the other kernels. Other than that it works fine (you also need a newer version of rtirq which is there in the fc12 repository). -- Fernando From naptastic at comcast.net Fri Nov 20 20:35:23 2009 From: naptastic at comcast.net (David Nielson) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:35:23 -0700 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] Trying out Fedora 12 In-Reply-To: <26421460.post@talk.nabble.com> References: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> <26421460.post@talk.nabble.com> Message-ID: <4B076E0B.9080702@comcast.net> Holy !@#$!!! I thought Yum was slow before, but now it is downright insufferable! I told it to install the ugly gstreamer plugins FORTY MINUTES AGO and it's still going!! (While I've been waiting, I filed bug #539802 against it.) What I'm really writing about: I installed the kernel-rt from the CCRMA repo, and it did not create its own entry in grub.conf; is anyone else experiencing this? Did I do something wrong? Does the CCRMA -rt kernel support booting from ext4? I tried booting it from the Grub command line and got an error that my / partition couldn't be mounted. I'm not sure if I've made a mistake, and I'm too busy waiting for !@$% yum to make another attempt. David Nielson From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Fri Nov 20 21:17:00 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Fri, 20 Nov 2009 21:17:00 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] Trying out Fedora 12 In-Reply-To: <4B076E0B.9080702@comcast.net> References: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> <26421460.post@talk.nabble.com> <4B076E0B.9080702@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1258780620.5552.7.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Fri, 2009-11-20 at 21:35 -0700, David Nielson wrote: > Holy !@#$!!! I thought Yum was slow before, but now it is downright > insufferable! I told it to install the ugly gstreamer plugins FORTY > MINUTES AGO and it's still going!! (While I've been waiting, I filed bug > #539802 against it.) (maybe connection problems? I did not notice any yum related slowdown in my very brief test of fc12) > What I'm really writing about: I installed the kernel-rt from the CCRMA > repo, and it did not create its own entry in grub.conf; is anyone else > experiencing this? Did I do something wrong? Probably not. Did you get any error messages during the rt kernel install? It should use drakut (new in fc12) to generally to all housekeeping related to the kernel install (at least that's what I understand). I did get errors, but I think those were due to memory problems (hardware). Today I booted into 12 without problems after changing the slots the memory was plugged in (I had to do unrelated stuff on that test machine so I could not do more research into that). I would try to reinstall. In my case it definitely showed up in grub. > Does the CCRMA -rt kernel support booting from ext4? I tried booting it > from the Grub command line and got an error that my / partition couldn't > be mounted. I'm not sure if I've made a mistake, and I'm too busy > waiting for !@$% yum to make another attempt. Sorry about that. The rt kernel build should (I mean it when I say "should" - not much testing done) support pretty much everything the stock Fedora kernel does - probably the most problematic area is the updates to the graphic drivers. The build options are the same, or as close as they can be. Not all patches in the Koji Fedora kernel I used as the starting point patch on top of rt, so as in previous rt kernels at Planet CCRMA those patches are just omitted (_anyone_ that has the time could do better, of course :-). Let us know of any errors you find... Best. -- Fernando From shakti at bayarea.net Sat Nov 21 17:29:48 2009 From: shakti at bayarea.net (Tracey Hytry) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 17:29:48 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] Trying out Fedora 12 In-Reply-To: <4B076E0B.9080702@comcast.net> References: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> <26421460.post@talk.nabble.com> <4B076E0B.9080702@comcast.net> Message-ID: <20091121172948.15f08f6c.shakti@bayarea.net> > What I'm really writing about: I installed the kernel-rt from the CCRMA > repo, and it did not create its own entry in grub.conf; is anyone else > experiencing this? Did I do something wrong? I doubt it, I suspect a problem in the new kernel handling software on fedora 12. I have the same problem with any new fedora kernel that I install. I think in my case it's because I use a grub in a very removed place from the installation. When I did the upgrade and got to the kernel install part it made me a bit nervous right then that something might be wrong. Usually I tell the install to put grub on the(non-bootable) partition that the new fedora's on; and then whenever I get a new kernel I copy the grub kernel lines from it's boot to my custom boot/grub. Anyway, if it still boots from a grub, you can just make your own lines up in it for the new kernel, until this gets sorted out I guess? Tell us if a new install works if you decide to do that? I wouldn't bother if you got this far from an "upgrade" like I did, because of the work involved in setting up the system the way you want it again. Also, leaving the drakut system in a confused state may be helpful, so that we know when they get the bugs out of it, that they really are gone. Good luck! From oget.fedora at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 19:02:05 2009 From: oget.fedora at gmail.com (Orcan Ogetbil) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:02:05 -0500 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story Message-ID: There was a recent attempt [1] in the Fedora devel list to discuss what to do with jack1 and jack2. But there was not much feedback. Upstream just released 0.118.0 and 1.9.4. So they don't seem like they are dumping jack1 for the time being. Currently we have jack1 in Fedora and jack2 in planetccrma. But these can't be installed in parallel. I would like to hear some opinions here. Which one do you folks use? Do you alternate for specific tasks? Would you like to have them parallelly installable? We can achieve parallel installation via "alternatives". This is actually what some packages do in Fedora, the most popular example being java. It would work in the following way: $ sudo alternatives --config jack Selection Library ----------------------------------------------- 1 jack-0.118.4 * 2 jack-1.9.4 The questions boil down to: - Is it worth the effort to adapt "alternatives"? - Shall we keep things this way? - Move the jack2 package to Fedora? Cheers, Orcan [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2009-November/msg00271.html From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 21 19:55:21 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 19:55:21 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 22:02 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > There was a recent attempt [1] in the Fedora devel list to discuss > what to do with jack1 and jack2. But there was not much feedback. > Upstream just released 0.118.0 and 1.9.4. So they don't seem like they > are dumping jack1 for the time being. > > Currently we have jack1 in Fedora and jack2 in planetccrma. But these > can't be installed in parallel. I would like to hear some opinions > here. Which one do you folks use? I have been using jack2 for a long time. One advantage is that for jack client graphs that can be execute in parallel it uses all cores available. That is a distinctive advantage in pretty much all contemporary computers (which have more than one core). > Do you alternate for specific tasks? I have never had to "downgrade" to jack1. (I seem to recall somebody having a problem with jack2 and that's why I have been keeping a jack1 package available as well - hopefully that person will add to the thread) > Would you like to have them parallelly installable? We can achieve > parallel installation via "alternatives". I'm not completely sure if that is possible. Keep in mind that all jack server and client _libraries_ need to be switched in and out (ie: it is not just a matter of switching the jackd binaries. > This is actually what some > packages do in Fedora, the most popular example being java. It would > work in the following way: > > $ sudo alternatives --config jack > > Selection Library > ----------------------------------------------- > 1 jack-0.118.4 > * 2 jack-1.9.4 > > > > The questions boil down to: > > - Is it worth the effort to adapt "alternatives"? > - Shall we keep things this way? > - Move the jack2 package to Fedora? The jack2 (and jack1) package in Planet CCRMA also has a different default priority that matches the best choice for the rt kernel (plus optimized irqs using rtirq). That is not really compatible with the current Fedora kernels (default priority is 60, below the irqs for the soundcards but above all others). It won't hurt, but I presume it will not fly either... The only other difference (AFAIK) is a different netjack but the current work was to move netjack1 to jack2 (I _think_ 1.9.4 may already have that, I have not checked yet). -- Fernando From oget.fedora at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 20:20:09 2009 From: oget.fedora at gmail.com (Orcan Ogetbil) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 23:20:09 -0500 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 22:02 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: >> >> Do you alternate for specific tasks? > > I have never had to "downgrade" to jack1. > > (I seem to recall somebody having a problem with jack2 and that's why I > have been keeping a jack1 package available as well - hopefully that > person will add to the thread) > Hmm. Then we might as well update Fedora's jack to 2. You are the boss here, you know better. But yes, let's first wait for some response. Do you know why they keep developing jack1? >> Would you like to have them parallelly installable? We can achieve >> parallel installation via "alternatives". > > I'm not completely sure if that is possible. Keep in mind that all jack > server and client _libraries_ need to be switched in and out (ie: it is > not just a matter of switching the jackd binaries. > I am confident that we can handle it. Java, as a much bigger suite with many libraries, does it. We will have to reside the actual binaries+libraries in certain directories and alternatives will do its magic with the symlinks. > > The jack2 (and jack1) package in Planet CCRMA also has a different > default priority that matches the best choice for the rt kernel (plus > optimized irqs using rtirq). That is not really compatible with the > current Fedora kernels (default priority is 60, below the irqs for the > soundcards but above all others). It won't hurt, but I presume it will > not fly either... > I understand. But in case we update Fedora's jack to 2, you can add a priorities file to kernel-rt's RPM that will go into /etc/security/limits.d/ (By the way, the current convention is to use that folder rather than editing limits.conf.) Orcan From shakti at bayarea.net Sat Nov 21 20:45:19 2009 From: shakti at bayarea.net (Tracey Hytry) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 20:45:19 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <20091121204519.4c90169a.shakti@bayarea.net> > > I am confident that we can handle it. Java, as a much bigger suite > with many libraries, does it. We will have to reside the actual > binaries+libraries in certain directories and alternatives will do its > magic with the symlinks. > > I understand. But in case we update Fedora's jack to 2, you can add a > priorities file to kernel-rt's RPM that will go into > /etc/security/limits.d/ > > (By the way, the current convention is to use that folder rather than > editing limits.conf.) > > > Orcan Partially because I have the time to check here and maybe post, I'll add my feelings about this: I think what Orcan is proposing would be really good. Fedora is incorporating a lot of tools that we should be using to solve problems if needed. The other side of this is that Fernando is doing a great job of keeping the planet together along with all of the work he does at CCRMA. I really don't know if the added complexity is worth it in time and energy? I'm very glad you're bringing this up tough, because the sharing of ideas here really helps(and may help in the future). Tracey From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sat Nov 21 21:37:49 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:37:49 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 23:20 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 22:02 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > >> > >> Do you alternate for specific tasks? > > > > I have never had to "downgrade" to jack1. > > > > (I seem to recall somebody having a problem with jack2 and that's why I > > have been keeping a jack1 package available as well - hopefully that > > person will add to the thread) > > > > Hmm. Then we might as well update Fedora's jack to 2. You are the boss > here, you know better. But yes, let's first wait for some response. Do > you know why they keep developing jack1? They are two completely separate efforts, jack1 was/is developed by Paul Davis and I would say is the "reference implementation" of the Jack API, jack2 is a completely different code base for exactly the same api, by St?phane Letz. Jack2 will eventually be the "next" version of Jack1 (AFAIK). It has a different internal architecture, Stephane gave a paper on that in one of the LAC's. > >> Would you like to have them parallelly installable? We can achieve > >> parallel installation via "alternatives". > > > > I'm not completely sure if that is possible. Keep in mind that all jack > > server and client _libraries_ need to be switched in and out (ie: it is > > not just a matter of switching the jackd binaries. > > > I am confident that we can handle it. Java, as a much bigger suite > with many libraries, does it. We will have to reside the actual > binaries+libraries in certain directories and alternatives will do its > magic with the symlinks. Ok, it would be worth trying. Having them both would be good. And the user can choose the default. What is the default default? :-), the last one installed? Sorry, I'm not familiar with the alternatives system. > > The jack2 (and jack1) package in Planet CCRMA also has a different > > default priority that matches the best choice for the rt kernel (plus > > optimized irqs using rtirq). That is not really compatible with the > > current Fedora kernels (default priority is 60, below the irqs for the > > soundcards but above all others). It won't hurt, but I presume it will > > not fly either... > > > I understand. But in case we update Fedora's jack to 2, you can add a > priorities file to kernel-rt's RPM that will go into > /etc/security/limits.d/ The priority I'm talking about is the one jackd runs at so it is internal to jack. I change the default in the source code to match rtirq's tweaked priorities. Jackd does not look for it anywhere, you can change it from the command line or qjackctl but it would be best to have the best choice be automatic for the rt kernel, of course :-) > (By the way, the current convention is to use that folder rather than > editing limits.conf.) Ah, I did not know that. I should change my current package to do that instead of adding to limits.conf (when did this start? fc11?) Thanks for bringing this up! I'm all for jack2 moving to Fedora proper, the trick would be to figure out the jackd rt priority stuff so that it can run under both kernels with no tweaking on the part of the user. No answer to that yet.... :-( -- Fernando From shakti at bayarea.net Sat Nov 21 21:50:58 2009 From: shakti at bayarea.net (Tracey Hytry) Date: Sat, 21 Nov 2009 21:50:58 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] Trying out Fedora 12 In-Reply-To: <20091121172948.15f08f6c.shakti@bayarea.net> References: <1258580389.15092.105.camel@localhost.localdomain> <26421460.post@talk.nabble.com> <4B076E0B.9080702@comcast.net> <20091121172948.15f08f6c.shakti@bayarea.net> Message-ID: <20091121215058.f5953099.shakti@bayarea.net> Replying to myself: > I doubt it, I suspect a problem in the new kernel handling software on fedora 12. > I have the same problem with any new fedora kernel that I install. I just installed the planet's rt kernel and it landed in the grub.conf file, along with the newest fedora kernel. So it working as it should over here. From oget.fedora at gmail.com Sat Nov 21 23:58:16 2009 From: oget.fedora at gmail.com (Orcan Ogetbil) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 02:58:16 -0500 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 23:20 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: >> > On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 22:02 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > >> >> Would you like to have them parallelly installable? We can achieve >> >> parallel installation via "alternatives". >> > >> > I'm not completely sure if that is possible. Keep in mind that all jack >> > server and client _libraries_ need to be switched in and out (ie: it is >> > not just a matter of switching the jackd binaries. >> > >> I am confident that we can handle it. Java, as a much bigger suite >> with many libraries, does it. We will have to reside the actual >> binaries+libraries in certain directories and alternatives will do its >> magic with the symlinks. > > Ok, it would be worth trying. Having them both would be good. And the > user can choose the default. > > What is the default default? :-), the last one installed? Sorry, I'm not > familiar with the alternatives system. > As far as I know, "alternatives" has a priority measure that you specify in the %post of your package. I don't know which one should be the default. I use both from time to time and I can't decide. I would say whichever is more stable. > The priority I'm talking about is the one jackd runs at so it is > internal to jack. I change the default in the source code to match > rtirq's tweaked priorities. Jackd does not look for it anywhere, you can > change it from the command line or qjackctl but it would be best to have > the best choice be automatic for the rt kernel, of course :-) > So, what would priority 60 do with Fedora's kernel? Sorry I'm rather ignorant with kernel related stuff. I run your jack2 on Fedora's kernel quite frequently. Although I haven't done anything other than simple 3-4 track recording recently, I didn't have trouble with the current setting. >> (By the way, the current convention is to use that folder rather than >> editing limits.conf.) > > Ah, I did not know that. I should change my current package to do that > instead of adding to limits.conf (when did this start? fc11?) > I think it started with F-11 but I'm not sure. You don't need to do an update just for this change. Maybe next time you update the package, you can do it this way. > Thanks for bringing this up! I'm all for jack2 moving to Fedora proper, > the trick would be to figure out the jackd rt priority stuff so that it > can run under both kernels with no tweaking on the part of the user. No > answer to that yet.... :-( > Yeah, it would be cool if we can figure out a best way. By the way, (maybe I should have said this in the beginning) I don't maintain Fedora's jack and I hope the current maintainer will cooperate. Cheers, Orcan From dford at ansur.demon.co.uk Sun Nov 22 03:09:46 2009 From: dford at ansur.demon.co.uk (David Ford) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 11:09:46 +0000 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4B091BFA.50501@ansur.demon.co.uk> Hi Guys In the middle of all this technical discussion can I add a plea from users of 'older hardware'? I'm running PCCRMA on a 2.6GH single core box and an IBM T23 1.13GH laptop, I wouldn't like to find that I can't use Jack any more - just as Jack has finally managed to overcome the Pulseaudio scourge and we are getting more and more applications with Jack connections. Thanks David On 22/11/09 07:58, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > >> On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 23:20 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: >> >>> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: >>> >>>> On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 22:02 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: >>>> >> >>>>> Would you like to have them parallelly installable? We can achieve >>>>> parallel installation via "alternatives". >>>>> >>>> I'm not completely sure if that is possible. Keep in mind that all jack >>>> server and client _libraries_ need to be switched in and out (ie: it is >>>> not just a matter of switching the jackd binaries. >>>> >>>> >>> I am confident that we can handle it. Java, as a much bigger suite >>> with many libraries, does it. We will have to reside the actual >>> binaries+libraries in certain directories and alternatives will do its >>> magic with the symlinks. >>> >> Ok, it would be worth trying. Having them both would be good. And the >> user can choose the default. >> >> What is the default default? :-), the last one installed? Sorry, I'm not >> familiar with the alternatives system. >> >> > As far as I know, "alternatives" has a priority measure that you > specify in the %post of your package. I don't know which one should be > the default. I use both from time to time and I can't decide. I would > say whichever is more stable. > > >> The priority I'm talking about is the one jackd runs at so it is >> internal to jack. I change the default in the source code to match >> rtirq's tweaked priorities. Jackd does not look for it anywhere, you can >> change it from the command line or qjackctl but it would be best to have >> the best choice be automatic for the rt kernel, of course :-) >> >> > So, what would priority 60 do with Fedora's kernel? Sorry I'm rather > ignorant with kernel related stuff. I run your jack2 on Fedora's > kernel quite frequently. Although I haven't done anything other than > simple 3-4 track recording recently, I didn't have trouble with the > current setting. > > >>> (By the way, the current convention is to use that folder rather than >>> editing limits.conf.) >>> >> Ah, I did not know that. I should change my current package to do that >> instead of adding to limits.conf (when did this start? fc11?) >> >> > I think it started with F-11 but I'm not sure. You don't need to do an > update just for this change. Maybe next time you update the package, > you can do it this way. > > >> Thanks for bringing this up! I'm all for jack2 moving to Fedora proper, >> the trick would be to figure out the jackd rt priority stuff so that it >> can run under both kernels with no tweaking on the part of the user. No >> answer to that yet.... :-( >> >> > Yeah, it would be cool if we can figure out a best way. By the way, > (maybe I should have said this in the beginning) I don't maintain > Fedora's jack and I hope the current maintainer will cooperate. > > Cheers, > Orcan > > _______________________________________________ > PlanetCCRMA mailing list > PlanetCCRMA at ccrma.stanford.edu > http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/attachments/20091122/db55ba76/attachment-0001.html From etiennerouge at yahoo.com Sun Nov 22 09:16:46 2009 From: etiennerouge at yahoo.com (Er) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 09:16:46 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] dbus support for jack? Message-ID: <852950.80545.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Hi! I've just discovered a brand new software called Ladish (http://ladish.org/) which aim to save and restore jack session. I don't have to explain you how helpful it is when you have to start always the same 5 application to make your music. Anyway, That software needs the dbus support to be enable in jack, so here's a few questions : 1) Is there any reason why it's not set as default? 2) I didn't found the srpm so I can make it myself, are they available somewhere? I really think this ladish can really improve our user experience, I hope it'll evolve quickly! Thanks Etienne From oget.fedora at gmail.com Sun Nov 22 11:09:48 2009 From: oget.fedora at gmail.com (Orcan Ogetbil) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 14:09:48 -0500 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: <4B091BFA.50501@ansur.demon.co.uk> References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4B091BFA.50501@ansur.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 6:09 AM, David Ford wrote: > Hi Guys > In the middle of all this technical discussion can I add a plea from users > of 'older hardware'? I'm running PCCRMA on a 2.6GH single core box and an > IBM T23 1.13GH laptop, I wouldn't like to find that I can't use Jack any > more - just as Jack has finally managed to overcome the Pulseaudio scourge > and we are getting more and more applications with Jack connections. > > Thanks > Hi Dave, the best way you can help us is to try both jack1 and jack2 and see if any of the two cause you problems. If yes, please report. Orcan From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 22 15:07:38 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:07:38 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: <4B091BFA.50501@ansur.demon.co.uk> References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4B091BFA.50501@ansur.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <1258931258.24310.4.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2009-11-22 at 11:09 +0000, David Ford wrote: > Hi Guys > In the middle of all this technical discussion can I add a plea from > users of 'older hardware'? I'm running PCCRMA on a 2.6GH single core > box and an IBM T23 1.13GH laptop, I wouldn't like to find that I can't > use Jack any more - just as Jack has finally managed to overcome the > Pulseaudio scourge and we are getting more and more applications with > Jack connections. No worries there, I think, either jack1 or jack2 should be happy. Jack2 can use multiple cores if the topology of the graph of apps allows it and you have more than one core, otherwise it just uses one (there is nothing special about it, it just spawns more threads and the os takes care of juggling them between cores or in one. -- Fernando > On 22/11/09 07:58, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > > > On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 23:20 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > > > > > > > On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 22:02 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Would you like to have them parallelly installable? We can achieve > > > > > > parallel installation via "alternatives". > > > > > > > > > > > I'm not completely sure if that is possible. Keep in mind that all jack > > > > > server and client _libraries_ need to be switched in and out (ie: it is > > > > > not just a matter of switching the jackd binaries. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am confident that we can handle it. Java, as a much bigger suite > > > > with many libraries, does it. We will have to reside the actual > > > > binaries+libraries in certain directories and alternatives will do its > > > > magic with the symlinks. > > > > > > > Ok, it would be worth trying. Having them both would be good. And the > > > user can choose the default. > > > > > > What is the default default? :-), the last one installed? Sorry, I'm not > > > familiar with the alternatives system. > > > > > > > > As far as I know, "alternatives" has a priority measure that you > > specify in the %post of your package. I don't know which one should be > > the default. I use both from time to time and I can't decide. I would > > say whichever is more stable. > > > > > > > The priority I'm talking about is the one jackd runs at so it is > > > internal to jack. I change the default in the source code to match > > > rtirq's tweaked priorities. Jackd does not look for it anywhere, you can > > > change it from the command line or qjackctl but it would be best to have > > > the best choice be automatic for the rt kernel, of course :-) > > > > > > > > So, what would priority 60 do with Fedora's kernel? Sorry I'm rather > > ignorant with kernel related stuff. I run your jack2 on Fedora's > > kernel quite frequently. Although I haven't done anything other than > > simple 3-4 track recording recently, I didn't have trouble with the > > current setting. > > > > > > > > (By the way, the current convention is to use that folder rather than > > > > editing limits.conf.) > > > > > > > Ah, I did not know that. I should change my current package to do that > > > instead of adding to limits.conf (when did this start? fc11?) > > > > > > > > I think it started with F-11 but I'm not sure. You don't need to do an > > update just for this change. Maybe next time you update the package, > > you can do it this way. > > > > > > > Thanks for bringing this up! I'm all for jack2 moving to Fedora proper, > > > the trick would be to figure out the jackd rt priority stuff so that it > > > can run under both kernels with no tweaking on the part of the user. No > > > answer to that yet.... :-( > > > > > > > > Yeah, it would be cool if we can figure out a best way. By the way, > > (maybe I should have said this in the beginning) I don't maintain > > Fedora's jack and I hope the current maintainer will cooperate. > > > > Cheers, > > Orcan > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PlanetCCRMA mailing list > > PlanetCCRMA at ccrma.stanford.edu > > http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma > > > _______________________________________________ > PlanetCCRMA mailing list > PlanetCCRMA at ccrma.stanford.edu > http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/mailman/listinfo/planetccrma From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 22 15:41:51 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 15:41:51 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] dbus support for jack? In-Reply-To: <852950.80545.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <852950.80545.qm@web52506.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <1258933311.24310.71.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2009-11-22 at 09:16 -0800, Er wrote: > Hi! > > I've just discovered a brand new software called Ladish (http://ladish.org/) > which aim to save and restore jack session. I don't have to explain you how > helpful it is when you have to start always the same 5 application to make > your music. > > Anyway, > > That software needs the dbus support to be enable in jack, so here's a > few questions : > > 1) Is there any reason why it's not set as default? In part because it is not settled how dbus support is going to be enabled inside jack itself. Currently dbus support is not included in the jack source. The current implementation is a separately patched jack released by Nedko Arnaudov. See the latest post from him (where maybe you found out about ladi): http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2009/11/0310.html and the response in the thread from Paul Davis as to why things are in the state they are (not as the result of generalized hatred of dbus, as the thread would lead you to believe): http://lalists.stanford.edu/lad/2009/11/0318.html (there were many threads before on this very same subject). Dbus support inside jack as currently implemented makes jakc behave differently and you can't choose at runtime whether to enable it or not, it is something you compile in or not. I made the mistake of enabling dbus in jack and it caused problems for users. I had not realized that the _behavior_ of jack had actually changed in a non compatible way - you can't do that and not give the option of opting in and out to users, that is impossible with the current implementation. > 2) I didn't found the srpm so I can make it myself, are they available > somewhere? All srpms for my packages are available in the Planet CCRMA web site, for example for fc11: http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/mirror/fedora/linux/planetccrma/11/SRPMS/ (substitute other release numbers for previous or later versions) The spec file has support for dbus in the form of a macro you define or not. So it should be easy to roll your own (but I have not checked it still works for some time and you would need to download the latest Nedko tarball). If it turns out it is possible to use alternatives to enable the peaceful coexistence of jack1 and jack2, then the same trick might be used to also add jackdbus to the mix (as a testing ground). That would be neat if it is never enabled by default. > I really think this ladish can really improve our user experience, > I hope it'll evolve quickly! Something like LADI is really really needed. Improved user experience was the promise of lash before ladi, and ladcca before lash (look them up :-) One of the problems is that application writers have to include support for it in their applications and you get a typical chicken and egg problem (which one was first?) -- Fernando From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sun Nov 22 16:37:25 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 16:37:25 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1258936645.24310.128.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2009-11-22 at 02:58 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 12:37 AM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 23:20 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > >> On Sat, Nov 21, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > >> > On Sat, 2009-11-21 at 22:02 -0500, Orcan Ogetbil wrote: > > > >> >> Would you like to have them parallelly installable? We can achieve > >> >> parallel installation via "alternatives". > >> > > >> > I'm not completely sure if that is possible. Keep in mind that all jack > >> > server and client _libraries_ need to be switched in and out (ie: it is > >> > not just a matter of switching the jackd binaries. > >> > > >> I am confident that we can handle it. Java, as a much bigger suite > >> with many libraries, does it. We will have to reside the actual > >> binaries+libraries in certain directories and alternatives will do its > >> magic with the symlinks. > > > > Ok, it would be worth trying. Having them both would be good. And the > > user can choose the default. > > > > What is the default default? :-), the last one installed? Sorry, I'm not > > familiar with the alternatives system. > > As far as I know, "alternatives" has a priority measure that you > specify in the %post of your package. I don't know which one should be > the default. I use both from time to time and I can't decide. I would > say whichever is more stable. For some time the clear choice was jack2 as jack1 was really really unstable (the long 0.109.2 release, pretty unusable). Today (jack1 0.118.0) that is not so clear cut as jack1 is again very usable. But I would choose jack2 as it is the future of jack, and can use multiple cores - that is very desirable. I'll have to learn about "alternatives".... do you have a url handy? > > The priority I'm talking about is the one jackd runs at so it is > > internal to jack. I change the default in the source code to match > > rtirq's tweaked priorities. Jackd does not look for it anywhere, you can > > change it from the command line or qjackctl but it would be best to have > > the best choice be automatic for the rt kernel, of course :-) > > So, what would priority 60 do with Fedora's kernel? Sorry I'm rather > ignorant with kernel related stuff. I run your jack2 on Fedora's > kernel quite frequently. Although I haven't done anything other than > simple 3-4 track recording recently, I didn't have trouble with the > current setting. Time to explain in more detail. There are two aspects that make it difficult: a) rt priorities of processes in the kernel and jack b) default settings in limits.conf (or equivalent - now we have rtkit for that) for what Fedora users can do == Fedora kernel: Fedora's kernel is not patched with the rt patch. So no processes run rt in the kernel (AFAIK), see below for what happens in the rt kernel. The allowed maximum priority for users in the jackuser group is 20: ---- ## Automatically appended by jack-audio-connection-kit @jackuser - rtprio 20 @jackuser - memlock 4194304 ---- So, in that context the default rt priority for jackd (10) works fine as it is less than 20, that is users in the jackuser group can run jackd with the -R option. == Planet CCRMA rt kernel: In an rt patched kernel processes associated with hardware interrupts, timers and other internal kernel stuff run in the rt scheduler ring. So they have more priority than any other SCHED_OTHER "normal" process. The default priorities of rt kernel processes is 50 (all hardware interrupts as far as I can remember) and 49 for all others. Which is more than the user limit of 20 and a lot more than the jack default of 10. So things work. But they are not optimized for best performance. In our context better performance means the most reliable audio performance at low latencies (the shorter the latency the harder it is, I routinely run at 128x2, it is not hard to do 64x2). The optimal setup which gives the best performance is to have the hardware interrupt process which services the soundcard to have higher priority than almost _all_ other hardware interrupt processes in the kernel. Then the soundcard driver has priority at the kernel level and can't be interrupted by, say disk i/o or the network interface or the mouse. If that were allowed to happen we would potentially get clicks (xruns in alsa parlance). But that is not enough. The rt threads inside jackd itself and its clients should have higher priorities than the kernel rt threads that deal with interrupts other than the soundcard. So that the threads that actually feed samples to the soundcard can't be interrupted by disk i/o, etc, etc. So... priority of soundcard interrupt > priority of rt threads in jack priority of rt threads in jack > priority of all other rt threads Rt priorities can be set or queried with chrt. So it is possible to tune everything at boot time for best performance. I currently do that with the rtirq script, written by Rui Nuno Capela. It is a boot time service that reorders the priorities of all interrupts to give the best performance. What it currently does is (more or less): - puts the rtc priority at the top (80, I think) - puts the soundcard priorities below that, around 70 - then i8042 keyboard/mouse - leaves all others alone at 50 and 49 (I'd have to check the scripts again to make sure but that's the idea). So a default priority for jack of 60 puts it in the right place in the ladder of priorities. The unpatched default of 10 is not enough, as all kernel priorities are above it. In that case rtirq is still better than nothing as the soundcard is prioritized over other hardware interrupts. .... I have raised this issue in the past and the result was more or less complete indifference if I remember correctly. There are two options for integrating Jack into Fedora and _not_ losing any performence: 1) adapt to Fedora's default of max rt priority for users of 20. That would involve changing rtirq and squeezing _all_ kernel and jack priorities within the range of 20. No pretty but doable, I guess (I don't see a reason of why 20 is a good choice). 2) convince the maintainer of jack in Fedora _and_ all other parties involved in Fedora that 20 is a bit to low and perhaps 50 or 70 would be better. I don't see much hope in that (or even 90, if you want to run an overlord process that monitors all other rt processes like in the case of rtkit then limiting users to _anything_ would be fine, it should not matter whether it is 20 or 90). I would be _very_ opposed to anything that involves an unnecessary compromise in performance. Then I would still have to package a jack that overrides the one in Fedora as I do now, and what's the point of that? Another problem is that Planet CCRMA assumes the user _will_ run jack with rt and thus it gives rt access to all users. That is unacceptable in Fedora but makes it not work as an out of the box solution for Planet CCRMA. Not a _real_ problem as I can override that with a mini-package in Planet CCRMA. Sorry for the length, hopefully I have covered everything relevant. > > Thanks for bringing this up! I'm all for jack2 moving to Fedora proper, > > the trick would be to figure out the jackd rt priority stuff so that it > > can run under both kernels with no tweaking on the part of the user. No > > answer to that yet.... :-( > > Yeah, it would be cool if we can figure out a best way. By the way, > (maybe I should have said this in the beginning) I don't maintain > Fedora's jack and I hope the current maintainer will cooperate. Let's hope for the best... It is too bad that I was very slow when Fedora got started and did not get to maintain the jack package from the beginning. -- Fernando From biggles58 at sbcglobal.net Sun Nov 22 20:15:37 2009 From: biggles58 at sbcglobal.net (Al Thompson) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 23:15:37 -0500 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: <4B091BFA.50501@ansur.demon.co.uk> References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4B091BFA.50501@ansur.demon.co.uk> Message-ID: <4B0A0C69.9070209@sbcglobal.net> David Ford wrote: > Hi Guys > In the middle of all this technical discussion can I add a plea from > users of 'older hardware'? I'm running PCCRMA on a 2.6GH single core > box and an IBM T23 1.13GH laptop, I wouldn't like to find that I can't > use Jack any more - just as Jack has finally managed to overcome the > Pulseaudio scourge and we are getting more and more applications with > Jack connections. I will second that!! I'm also on an Intel single core, using an older kernel (2.6.23.17), and will be upset if I get left behind by an upgrade. -- Check out the website I've been cobbling together. It will never be done, but it's a start: http://lateralforce.no-ip.org My blog, with commentary on a variety of things, including audio, mixing, equipment, etc, is at: http://audioandmore.wordpress.com Staat hei?t das k?lteste aller kalten Ungeheuer. Kalt l?gt es auch; und diese L?ge kriecht aus seinem Munde: 'Ich, der Staat, bin das Volk.' - [Friedrich Nietzsche] From belliott4488 at verizon.net Sun Nov 22 20:42:30 2009 From: belliott4488 at verizon.net (Bruce Elliott) Date: Sun, 22 Nov 2009 20:42:30 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] setting up new system with Delta 1010LT + Intel HDA In-Reply-To: <375021.20053.qm@web84104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <375021.20053.qm@web84104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <177785.79513.qm@web84103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> I have not seen any responses to my post below. Is it too basic for this list, and if so, is there a better place for me to seek help? I'm hoping that my problem is fairly simple, and that it can be resolved with a few diagnostic tests, but I'm not sure how to proceed. Thanks, Bruce ________________________________ From: Bruce Elliott To: planetccrma at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 11:10:37 AM Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] setting up new system with Delta 1010LT + Intel HDA I'm setting up a new PC and hope to use the CCRMA packages for some simple home recording projects. The PC has a 64-bit processor, so I've installed the x86_64 version of Fedora 10. I've done the basic steps of adding the Planet CCRMA repositories and installed the real time kernel, so I'm think I'm ready to try and get started. First, I need to get my cards set up right. I have an M-Audio Delta 1010LT card, which I'd like to use for working with music and the Intel HDA card built in to the motherboard, which I'd be happy to use for things like system notifications and other incidental sounds. Here is what the system tells me about the cards: # cat /proc/asound/cards 0 [Intel ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel HDA Intel at 0xf9200000 irq 22 1 [M1010LT ]: ICE1712 - M Audio Delta 1010LT M Audio Delta 1010LT at 0xb000, irq 20 Here is my modprobe.conf: # cat /etc/modprobe.conf alias snd-card-0 snd_hda_intel options snd-card-0 index=0 options snd_hda_intel index=0 alias snd-card-1 snd_ice1712 options snd-card-1 index=1 options snd_ice1712 index=1 I put the Intel card first, since the CCRMA installation instructions say that the first one is "usually the default device used by all programs", and I figured that if some application decides to make an unexpected noise, then I don't want it going through my music system; in other words, I'd like to choose what I send through the Delta 1010 card. Does that make sense? Here's what is happening so far: I get no sounds out of my speakers except when I go to the KDE System Settings|Multimedia and test some of the output devices. The list of devices, which I can order differently for Notifications, Music, Video, etc, shows these: PulseAudio HDA Intel (ALC883 Analog) M Audio Delta 1010LT (ICE1712 multi) HDA Intel (ALC883 Digital) Default PulseAudio Sound Server The only ones that produce any sounds when I test them are the HDA Analog device and the Delta 1010 device, but the weird thing is that output seems to be coming out of the built-in output jack (on the motherboard) in either case. Does the OS route output from the Delta 1010 through the built-in card to its output jack? Also, I've connected only the first two RCA analog outputs from the Delta 1010 to my desktop speaker system - should I use a different pair of outputs for testing? Playing a CD directly from the CD drive works, but playing music files from Amarok does not. I'll leave it at that for now. Any suggestions for what I should do next? Thanks, Bruce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/attachments/20091122/d664c210/attachment-0001.html From luisgarrido at users.sourceforge.net Mon Nov 23 01:05:41 2009 From: luisgarrido at users.sourceforge.net (Luis Garrido) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 10:05:41 +0100 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: <1258936645.24310.128.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258936645.24310.128.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: Nice breaking up of the problem, Nando, I am sure this will help the layman to understand the problem. The key number here is 50, which is the default priority of the kernel threads. To further clarify it, AFAIK the absolute value is not significant: threads with a priority of 50 won't run 5 times faster than those with priority 10. As long as a thread has higher priority it will receive the full attention of the kernel. And herein lies the problem. You have to be very, very (very) careful of what threads you are going to put above the kernel ones, since the potential for misuse is great and the consequences ugly. Those threads have to be extremely well behaved. Letting an user up her max priority to 20 is a relatively safe setting, appropriate for a general purpose distribution. It's only us audio users who are willing to trust a bug in jackd not rendering our system unusable. As Nando pointed out, a possibility is modifying rtirq so it crams non-audio kernel threads below 20. Since you still have 20 values I see this as a very viable solution, and the easiest one, since I don't think more than 5-6 levels are really necessary: - rtc - sound driver - external port driver (if needed, like usb or firewire). - keyboard-mouse - rest of the populace In the case it would be deemed wise to have a bit more headroom it would be probably easy to convince the mainstream maintainer to up his limit to 40, which is still below the kernel default. Another possibility is to push jackd limits to a file in the /etc/security/limits.d hierarchy. Since it looks like you can order the settings there by filename Nando could create a minipackage with a settings file that would override the mainstream one, like: 50-jackd.conf 51-jackd-planet.conf Cheers, L From oget.fedora at gmail.com Mon Nov 23 02:42:46 2009 From: oget.fedora at gmail.com (Orcan Ogetbil) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 05:42:46 -0500 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: <1258936645.24310.128.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258936645.24310.128.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: On Sun, Nov 22, 2009 at 7:37 PM, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > > I'll have to learn about "alternatives".... do you have a url handy? > I don't think that there is a url, but alternatives has a nice manpage. Also as an implementation example, you might want to look at Fedora's java specfile: http://cvs.fedora.redhat.com/viewvc/devel/java-1.6.0-openjdk/java-1.6.0-openjdk.spec?view=log Thanks for the extensive lecture on priorities. I have to read it a few times to comprehend :) Orcan From ebmayat at mac.com Mon Nov 23 05:29:29 2009 From: ebmayat at mac.com (Ebrahim Mayat) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 08:29:29 -0500 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story (or "The State of (the Union) JACK" speech) In-Reply-To: <1258936645.24310.128.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258936645.24310.128.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1258982969.2450.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Sun, 2009-11-22 at 16:37 -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > For some time the clear choice was jack2 as jack1 was really really > unstable (the long 0.109.2 release, pretty unusable). Today (jack1 > 0.118.0) that is not so clear cut as jack1 is again very usable. But I > would choose jack2 as it is the future of jack, and can use multiple > cores - that is very desirable. > // > > Time to explain in more detail. There are two aspects that make it > difficult: > > a) rt priorities of processes in the kernel and jack > b) default settings in limits.conf (or equivalent - now we have rtkit > for that) for what Fedora users can do > > == Fedora kernel: > > Fedora's kernel is not patched with the rt patch. So no processes run rt > in the kernel (AFAIK), see below for what happens in the rt kernel. The > allowed maximum priority for users in the jackuser group is 20: > > ---- > ## Automatically appended by jack-audio-connection-kit > @jackuser - rtprio 20 > @jackuser - memlock 4194304 > ---- > > So, in that context the default rt priority for jackd (10) works fine as > it is less than 20, that is users in the jackuser group can run jackd > with the -R option. > > == Planet CCRMA rt kernel: > > In an rt patched kernel processes associated with hardware interrupts, > timers and other internal kernel stuff run in the rt scheduler ring. So > they have more priority than any other SCHED_OTHER "normal" process. The > default priorities of rt kernel processes is 50 (all hardware interrupts > as far as I can remember) and 49 for all others. Which is more than the > user limit of 20 and a lot more than the jack default of 10. > > So things work. But they are not optimized for best performance. In our > context better performance means the most reliable audio performance at > low latencies (the shorter the latency the harder it is, I routinely run > at 128x2, it is not hard to do 64x2). > > The optimal setup which gives the best performance is to have the > hardware interrupt process which services the soundcard to have higher > priority than almost _all_ other hardware interrupt processes in the > kernel. Then the soundcard driver has priority at the kernel level and > can't be interrupted by, say disk i/o or the network interface or the > mouse. If that were allowed to happen we would potentially get clicks > (xruns in alsa parlance). > > But that is not enough. The rt threads inside jackd itself and its > clients should have higher priorities than the kernel rt threads that > deal with interrupts other than the soundcard. So that the threads that > actually feed samples to the soundcard can't be interrupted by disk i/o, > etc, etc. > > So... > > priority of soundcard interrupt > priority of rt threads in jack > priority of rt threads in jack > priority of all other rt threads > > Rt priorities can be set or queried with chrt. So it is possible to tune > everything at boot time for best performance. I currently do that with > the rtirq script, written by Rui Nuno Capela. It is a boot time service > that reorders the priorities of all interrupts to give the best > performance. What it currently does is (more or less): > > - puts the rtc priority at the top (80, I think) > - puts the soundcard priorities below that, around 70 > - then i8042 keyboard/mouse > - leaves all others alone at 50 and 49 > > (I'd have to check the scripts again to make sure but that's the idea). > > So a default priority for jack of 60 puts it in the right place in the > ladder of priorities. > > The unpatched default of 10 is not enough, as all kernel priorities are > above it. In that case rtirq is still better than nothing as the > soundcard is prioritized over other hardware interrupts. > > .... > > I have raised this issue in the past and the result was more or less > complete indifference if I remember correctly. > > There are two options for integrating Jack into Fedora and _not_ losing > any performence: > > 1) adapt to Fedora's default of max rt priority for users of 20. That > would involve changing rtirq and squeezing _all_ kernel and jack > priorities within the range of 20. No pretty but doable, I guess (I > don't see a reason of why 20 is a good choice). > > 2) convince the maintainer of jack in Fedora _and_ all other parties > involved in Fedora that 20 is a bit to low and perhaps 50 or 70 would be > better. I don't see much hope in that (or even 90, if you want to run an > overlord process that monitors all other rt processes like in the case > of rtkit then limiting users to _anything_ would be fine, it should not > matter whether it is 20 or 90). > > I would be _very_ opposed to anything that involves an unnecessary > compromise in performance. Then I would still have to package a jack > that overrides the one in Fedora as I do now, and what's the point of > that? > > Another problem is that Planet CCRMA assumes the user _will_ run jack > with rt and thus it gives rt access to all users. That is unacceptable > in Fedora but makes it not work as an out of the box solution for Planet > CCRMA. Not a _real_ problem as I can override that with a mini-package > in Planet CCRMA. > > Sorry for the length, hopefully I have covered everything relevant. > // > Let's hope for the best... > > It is too bad that I was very slow when Fedora got started and did not > get to maintain the jack package from the beginning. > Fernando Absolutely brilliant !! I would term this "The State of (the Union) JACK" speech ;-) It would be great if you could condense your explanation together with Luis' explanation of "kernel priority" into a "JACK in a nutshell" piece. Your work is deeply appreciated. Ebrahim From theother1510 at sbcglobal.net Mon Nov 23 06:00:14 2009 From: theother1510 at sbcglobal.net (Stephen Stubbs) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 06:00:14 -0800 (PST) Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] setting up new system with Delta 1010LT + Intel HDA In-Reply-To: <177785.79513.qm@web84103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <375021.20053.qm@web84104.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <177785.79513.qm@web84103.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <920188.26761.qm@web83910.mail.sp1.yahoo.com> Hello Bruce, You are?using PulseAudio with Fedora 10.? Are you also using ALSA? If you are using ALSA, then you need to search through the ALSA packages and remove the one that refers to PulseAudio.? It's something like ALSA output to PulseAudio backend.? In Fedora 10, PulseAudio was not always playing nice with the other sound systems/servers/utilities. An alternative is to upgrade to Fedora 11.? It appears the ALSA and PulseAudio problems have been resolved and the two systems get along.? I tend to mistrust PulseAudio completely and disable/remove as much of it as is possible with whatever Fedora version I'm running. Best, Stephen. ________________________________ From: Bruce Elliott To: planetccrma at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sent: Sun, November 22, 2009 10:42:30 PM Subject: Re: [PlanetCCRMA] setting up new system with Delta 1010LT + Intel HDA I have not seen any responses to my post below.? Is it too basic for this list, and if so, is there a better place for me to seek help? I'm hoping that my problem is fairly simple, and that it can be resolved with a few diagnostic tests, but I'm not sure how to proceed. Thanks, Bruce ________________________________ From: Bruce Elliott To: planetccrma at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Sent: Wed, November 18, 2009 11:10:37 AM Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] setting up new system with Delta 1010LT + Intel HDA I'm setting up a new PC and? hope to use the CCRMA packages for some simple home recording projects.? The PC has a 64-bit processor, so I've installed the x86_64 version of Fedora 10.? I've done the basic steps of adding the Planet CCRMA repositories and installed the real time kernel, so I'm think I'm ready to try and get started. First, I need to get my cards set up right.? I have an M-Audio Delta 1010LT card, which I'd like to use for working with music and the Intel HDA card built in to the motherboard, which I'd be happy to use for things like system notifications and other incidental sounds.? Here is what the system tells me about the cards: # cat /proc/asound/cards ?0 [Intel????????? ]: HDA-Intel - HDA Intel ????????????????????? HDA Intel at 0xf9200000 irq 22 ?1 [M1010LT??????? ]: ICE1712 - M Audio Delta 1010LT ????????????????????? M Audio Delta 1010LT at 0xb000, irq 20 ? Here is my modprobe.conf: # cat /etc/modprobe.conf alias snd-card-0 snd_hda_intel options snd-card-0 index=0 options snd_hda_intel index=0 alias snd-card-1 snd_ice1712 options snd-card-1 index=1 options snd_ice1712 index=1 I put the Intel card first, since the CCRMA installation instructions say that the first one is "usually the default device used by all programs", and I figured that if some application decides to make an unexpected noise, then I don't want it going through my music system; in other words, I'd like to choose what I send through the Delta 1010 card.? Does that make sense? Here's what is happening so far:? I get no sounds out of my speakers except when I go to the KDE System Settings|Multimedia and test some of the output devices.? The list of devices, which I can order differently for Notifications, Music, Video, etc, shows these: PulseAudio HDA Intel (ALC883 Analog) M Audio Delta 1010LT (ICE1712 multi) HDA Intel (ALC883 Digital) Default PulseAudio Sound Server The only ones that produce any sounds when I test them are the HDA Analog device and the Delta 1010 device, but the weird thing is that output seems to be coming out of the built-in output jack (on the motherboard) in either case.? Does the OS route output from the Delta 1010 through the built-in card to its output jack?? Also, I've connected only the first two RCA analog outputs from the Delta 1010 to my desktop speaker system - should I use a different pair of outputs for testing? Playing a CD directly from the CD drive works, but playing music files from Amarok does not. I'll leave it at that for now.? Any suggestions for what I should do next? Thanks, Bruce -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://ccrma-mail.stanford.edu/pipermail/planetccrma/attachments/20091123/734deeed/attachment.html From naptastic at comcast.net Mon Nov 23 13:09:48 2009 From: naptastic at comcast.net (David Nielson) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 14:09:48 -0700 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story (or "The State of (the Union) JACK" speech) In-Reply-To: <1258982969.2450.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258936645.24310.128.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258982969.2450.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <4B0AFA1C.4090008@comcast.net> I want to make sure I understand all this correctly. 1. When we are talking about "priority" in this context, are we talking about which processes have permission to preempt which other processes? A higher priority task can preempt a lower priority task but not vice-versa? 2. When we talk about "kernel threads" (rtc) are we talking about things like the scheduler, which should never ever be preempted, or are we talking about things like disk I/O? 3. Does the system in place distinguish between critical kernel processes, like the scheduler, and things that a user might want to put off until later, like disk I/O? (The reason I ask is that, with my setup, I can get 128x2 to be rock-solid *unless* there is an SD card in my computer's SD card reader, and if I am copying a file from the SD card to the hard disk, I get xruns of 40ms (forty milliseconds, REALLY!) so there is obviously something in the I/O that should get preempted but doesn't.) 4. Would rt permissions for regular users be unacceptable to regular Fedora because of the possibility of a user crafting or unintentionally running a task with a high priority which then crashes, potentially taking down the entire system? 5. Does it really make that much difference? I know software I can write and run on a non-rt kernel as a regular user that basically takes down the entire system for everyone. So what's the big deal? 6. If I understand correctly, the ability of a user to start high-priority tasks depends on their membership in the jackuser group. Would it be acceptable to the Fedora people to have a "audio configuration wizard" applet (forgive me; I grew up with Windows) that requires the root user to grant membership to the jackuser group, and includes a Big Scary Warning about the potential for disaster? (I think it's probably safe to assume that in most DAWs, the end user and superuser are the same person, but for the average Fedora installation, that's an unsafe assumption?) David Nielson From nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU Mon Nov 23 13:53:23 2009 From: nando at ccrma.Stanford.EDU (Fernando Lopez-Lezcano) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 13:53:23 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story (or "The State of (the Union) JACK" speech) In-Reply-To: <4B0AFA1C.4090008@comcast.net> References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258936645.24310.128.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258982969.2450.1.camel@localhost.localdomain> <4B0AFA1C.4090008@comcast.net> Message-ID: <1259013203.28842.85.camel@localhost.localdomain> On Mon, 2009-11-23 at 14:09 -0700, David Nielson wrote: > I want to make sure I understand all this correctly. > > 1. When we are talking about "priority" in this context, are we talking > about which processes have permission to preempt which other processes? > A higher priority task can preempt a lower priority task but not vice-versa? Yes, with a caveat. The kernel has several scheduler policies. I'm pretty much always talking about the "real-time" policies (SCHED_FIFO, SCHED_RR) which always have priority over SCHED_OTHER no matter what the priority of the SCHED_OTHER processes are. So SCHED_FIFO and SCHED_RR _always_ preempt normal tasks - by default programs you run and most of the operating system runs with the SCHED_OTHER policy. Some threads in jack run with SCHED_FIFO or SCHED_RR when you use the "-R" command line option and that's what needs special permissions. (for details see man sched_setscheduler) > 2. When we talk about "kernel threads" (rtc) are we talking about things > like the scheduler, which should never ever be preempted, or are we > talking about things like disk I/O? hmmmm, I don't think the scheduler counts as a "process". Otherwise you are right, in an rt patched kernel (not the regular Fedora kernel) all irq's (interrupt service requests) coming from the hardware peripherals are serviced by code that runs with a real-time policy (plus some other important stuff in the kernel, timer management threads is one, I think). > 3. Does the system in place distinguish between critical kernel > processes, like the scheduler, and things that a user might want to put > off until later, like disk I/O? (The reason I ask is that, with my > setup, I can get 128x2 to be rock-solid *unless* there is an SD card in > my computer's SD card reader, and if I am copying a file from the SD > card to the hard disk, I get xruns of 40ms (forty milliseconds, REALLY!) > so there is obviously something in the I/O that should get preempted but > doesn't.) The answer to this is a bit complicated. The kernel scheduler (I think the default is the CFS, the "Completely Fair Scheduler") does not know what the user wants. It just juggles tasks according to the policy, priority and many other things - which I guess can be configured by the user :-) In your particular case it is difficult to know why you get xruns without more data. What kernel are you running? If an rt kernel are you optimizing interrupt priority with rtirq? If so, at what priority are the jack rt threads running? If it is all optimized then there's a preemption point (or points) in the sd card driver that should be taken care of in the rt patch... a bug probably. > 4. Would rt permissions for regular users be unacceptable to regular > Fedora because of the possibility of a user crafting or unintentionally > running a task with a high priority which then crashes, potentially > taking down the entire system? It is not that it can crash, quite the reverse. An SCHED_FIFO or SCHED_RR process can only be preempted by another SCHED_FIFO or SCHED_RR process with higher priority. So a program, by mistake or design, can enter into a loop and not yield the CPU at all - and if there is no other SCHED_FIFO or SCHED_RR that premmpts it and hopefully kills it (there are several programs that can do that - watchdog timers) all user processes will be just waiting for a chance to get at the CPU and will never get it. You then have a locked machine that technically has not crashed but is useless :-) > 5. Does it really make that much difference? I know software I can write > and run on a non-rt kernel as a regular user that basically takes down > the entire system for everyone. So what's the big deal? See above, that's called a denial of service attack. Any user with access to real-time scheduling policy could do that. > 6. If I understand correctly, the ability of a user to start > high-priority tasks depends on their membership in the jackuser group. In Fedora, yes. After you have installed the Planet CCRMA jack you don't need to do that, all users have access by default. > Would it be acceptable to the Fedora people to have a "audio > configuration wizard" applet (forgive me; I grew up with Windows) that > requires the root user to grant membership to the jackuser group, and > includes a Big Scary Warning about the potential for disaster? I guess the regular group membership gui would be enough for that (don't know what it is these days). > (I think it's probably safe to assume that in most DAWs, the end user > and superuser are the same person, but for the average Fedora > installation, that's an unsafe assumption?) -- Fernando From jonrysh at pacbell.net Mon Nov 23 18:33:04 2009 From: jonrysh at pacbell.net (Jonathan Ryshpan) Date: Mon, 23 Nov 2009 18:33:04 -0800 Subject: [PlanetCCRMA] The JACK Story In-Reply-To: <1258936645.24310.128.camel@localhost.localdomain> References: <1258862121.2924.15.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258868269.2924.25.camel@localhost.localdomain> <1258936645.24310.128.camel@localhost.localdomain> Message-ID: <1259029984.2061.21.camel@localhost> On Sun, 2009-11-22 at 16:37 -0800, Fernando Lopez-Lezcano wrote: > There are two options for integrating Jack into Fedora and _not_ losing > any performence: > > 1) adapt to Fedora's default of max rt priority for users of 20. That > would involve changing rtirq and squeezing _all_ kernel and jack > priorities within the range of 20. No pretty but doable, I guess (I > don't see a reason of why 20 is a good choice). > > 2) convince the maintainer of jack in Fedora _and_ all other parties > involved in Fedora that 20 is a bit to low and perhaps 50 or 70 would be > better. I don't see much hope in that (or even 90, if you want to run an > overlord process that monitors all other rt processes like in the case > of rtkit then limiting users to _anything_ would be fine, it should not > matter whether it is 20 or 90). I can't see any reason to integrate jack into Fedora, meaning the standard Fedora repos, as long as CCRMA maintains its own repo. I have been using CCRMA's jack (in fact the complete CCRMA repo) successfully with the standard Fedora+Rpmfusion repos. I've tested jack pretty thoroughly for xruns, and there aren't any. Of course my computer is a 4-processor x86_64 machine, so it has a good deal of throughput, and I have rebuilt the kernel to be fully preemptable (or is it preemptible), though not realtime. Now that I've read FL's latest posting it's clear that the priorities in /etc/security/limits.conf or /etc/security/limits.d/xxx ought to be changed; they read now: $ cat /etc/security/limits.conf ... ## Automatically appended by the Planet CCRMA jack-audio-connection-kit # * - rtprio 99 # * - memlock 4194304 # * - nice -10 ## Appended by jonrysh according to advice in ## www.harald-hoyer.de/linux/pulseaudio-and-jackd @jackuser - rtprio 20 @jackuser - memlock 4194304 @pulse-rt - rtprio 20 @pulse-rt - nice -20 I'd advise not to try to get Fedora to change its policies, if you can avoid it. Such coordination is always trouble for both parties. Thanks for CCRMA - jon